Noob.

[joachimnor]

if i was a doctor i would say no to a big paycheck as that...

[jab16]

People who say we should bring the troops home today clearly have no understanding of warfare, its history and its greater effect on home, abroad, economy, social effects and international relations. People die in wars and that rate is not directly proportional to troops deployed and deaths are relatively low for the intensity of fighting and guerrila tactics of the taliban.

I agree to the greatest extent! I have studied military tactics before, and reguarly talk tactics with a former member of general Pattons staff. Pretty much the war on terrisim is as much of a physical war as it is pyscological. It is like this from what I understand, Osama wants war, he wants to get back at the US. By attacking the US on 9/11 he caused the US harm and we began to fight his terrists. By doing this Osama is getting what he wants, a fight with the US. This is like a game to him, whether win or loose he is getting what he wants, a fight with the US. By putting pressure on him we are infact giving him what he wants, that fight. But at the same time we are occupying him in the middle east and with increased security measures, we are keeping it contained.

Think of the cell as a fire. You cover the fire from all directions, then cut off the oxygen supply. Then the oxygen runs out and the fire dies out. We need to contain the fire, or the terrists anc cover them from all sides, keep the fighting in one area. Then we need to cut off the oxygen supply, launch a massive assualt on the area, and kill him. we also need to make sure there is nothing around that fuels the fire, that being the people that supply weapons and money. By getting rid of any fuel around, the fire cant burn on its own and has no where to go. After the fire disappears you would need to clean up, in a tactial case we would need to kill off any remaining major cells left, then return to normal.

Hope you all understood all that.

[erfd]

Yes but everybody should care about dead people(both Americans and Muslims).

Did I say I didnt care about the people who have died? I said nobody cares if it is a war or a military operation.

Edit: Maybe this is why they are fighting http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091204/ap_on_re_af/af_somalia

[joachimnor]

uhm, somalia have had civil war for many years...

[Fuzzyface]

[Off Topic Post]

Any news in regards to the hacker yet?

Oh wait a second...

[Dosedmonkey]

uhm, somalia have had civil war for many years...

Yeah because America pulled out of there and gave up before they finished the job.

[nick the greek]

Well then our troops have died for no reason at all.

Yes.

Im sorry, but if those people in the military were not there, you would not be sleeping at night.

Hahaha you think so? Don't you think that US caused this war(it is a war against everyone who doesn't like them)

Without troops terrists would be able to conduct attacks on the U.S. everything that is going on is not to stop attacks completly but to prevent them from happening. With troops putting pressure on terrists they are not able to carry out attacks like 9/11

You should also have some troops to put pressure on Agencies and fu*king Massons instead of patrolling in Afghanistan with no reason at all.(Is Hitler's minister of propaganda alive?)

My close family member- part of the USMC served a tour in Iraq, was hit by an IED and receved a purple heart- discharged from the USMC. After he got out he joined blackwater, so he can help vital supplies get to the people that need it doing this for less then normal pay. Everyone needs to remember not to take anything for granted, there are people in the middle of this that are being affected, and our troops are protecting them and preparing there forces to protect.

Are you sure about that?

Oh no, jab mentioned Blackwater. £10 says someone starts a rant about how bad they are etc etc

They are damn payed killers Hunter.

Did I say I didnt care about the people who have died? I said nobody cares if it is a war or a military operation.

The situation in Africa has been completely "made" by the West people and their need for oil and money. We made these people kill each other with no reason and we made them live in poverty while big oil companies are stealing THEIR oil. It is a huge story and it begins from when Europeans and Americans started exploring the world and treating Black people like animals.

Peace will never arise as long as man's will for money and power will be this strong(sorry for bad grammar and spelling)

[hunter42]

They are damn payed killers Hunter.

...So? That's their job. And I'm sure they do a good job of it.

[Forensics]

Make sure to dig a cave there if you want to be safer than that. That house can burn down and I don't think there is a fire department out there.

Thanks.

The nearest FD is about 9 miles away.

Just checked it's actually 6.8 miles away

[Hoppah]

[lots of subjective and unmotivated bullsh*t]

That's hilarious! Why are you so convinced that the US caused the 'war on terror'? Please motivate that with your OWN opinion. Thanks.

Africe isn't that interesting. It's either a corrupt government, civil war, lack of food/water, illiteracy and the spreading of deseases (HIV) that's causing the poverty in these countries. We all know that. You just like to blame the rest of the world. Especially the civil wars and the corrupt governments prevent these countries to develop. 'Totally made by the West' my ass. Africa has abundant natural resources, but not as many oil as the Middle East has.

[nick the greek]

Because I hate them. After the World War 2 they got troops in every part of the world with no reason. They had one attack on 9/11 and they made two wars for it. They kill millions but when somebody else kills some of them they begin to talk about union and patriotism and other bullsh*t. I don't have any problems with American people but I think that they should use their million guns against their politicians and companies CEO's instead of joining the USMC to kill some damn terrorists. They talk about union and their great country but still millions can't have proper healthcare. When Obama said that he was going to change that they accused him of being a socialist. This what a President has to be. A fuc*ing socialist. He must care about the people not the companies and the whole stupid capitalistic system. During the Cold War Americans have seen/read/heard tons of anti-Russian and anti-Communism propaganda and they are afraid of them now.

[Forensics]

Someone should really change the topic title...

This must be the biggest ever debate on this forum. Am i right?

[nick the greek]

Someone should really change the topic title...

This must be the biggest ever debate on this forum. Am i right?

Probably...

[hunter42]

This must be the biggest ever debate on this forum. Am i right?

Pretty much.

During the Cold War Americans have seen/read/heard tons of anti-Russian and anti-Communism propaganda and they are afraid of them now.

Don't fully see the relevence, but ok

That's because the world saw what was happening to people living in Communist countries. In China, students were shot by the army because the government did not want to lose it's communist rule - They even shot ambulance drivers as they tried to save people.

People in East Germany were clearly desperate to get out of Soviet control (including one design where the roof of a sports car would come off when it hit the barrier suppose to stop them).

Don't know if this was captured on film or not, but two men were shot and left for dead by Soviet troops in the ground between the Allies and Soviets. - Right in front of the Allied soldiers and civilians in West Germany. But the men could not be helped incase they were fired upon by Soviet troops.

If an escapee was wounded in a crossing attempt and lay on the death strip, no matter how close they were to the Western wall, they could not be rescued for fear of triggering engaging fire from the 'Grepos', the East Berlin border guards. The guards often let fugitives bleed to death in the middle of this ground, as in the most notorious failed attempt, that of Peter Fechter (aged 18). He was shot and bled to death in full view of the Western media, on August 17, 1962.

(Although I do agree that all Americans should have free healthcare)

[nick the greek]

Communism is great in theory but when is time for action it sucks. Socialism is different than communism and this is what Americans should realize. These people are afraid and they always feel insecure...

[joachimnor]

Yeah because America pulled out of there and gave up before they finished the job.

Well, somalia was in war loooong before that

[Hoppah]

Because I hate them. After the World War 2 they got troops in every part of the world with no reason. They had one attack on 9/11 and they made two wars for it. They kill millions but when somebody else kills some of them they begin to talk about union and patriotism and other bullsh*t. I don't have any problems with American people but I think that they should use their million guns against their politicians and companies CEO's instead of joining the USMC to kill some damn terrorists. They talk about union and their great country but still millions can't have proper healthcare. When Obama said that he was going to change that they accused him of being a socialist. This what a President has to be. A fuc*ing socialist. He must care about the people not the companies and the whole stupid capitalistic system. During the Cold War Americans have seen/read/heard tons of anti-Russian and anti-Communism propaganda and they are afraid of them now.

So you are a communist? Did you know that true communism cannot exist? It would require a radical change to the human psych and that is impossible to achieve. From naturally, humans are egoists. People do not work for the common good, but for themselves and that's why communism sounds great in theory but never proved to be successful for real. Concering the wars, the Vietnam War was the only war where the US shouldn't get involved in, in my opinion. It were the French who unstabilized the country after they tried to 'recapture' and claim it shortly after World War II. Then you also had the Korean War in the '50s, where the US assisted South-Korea after the UN requested that. Another big one was the Somali Civil War where conditions got so bad that the UN (yes the United Nations) tried to restore order. The First Gulf War was actually caused by Iraq itself. Because of the importance of oil to the whole world (not only the US!) the US and a huge coalition from 34 countries (including Greece and Norway) started to stop Iraq's aggression. The invasion was authorized by the UN. The invasian in Afghanistan in 2001 was a direct result of 9/11. The invasion of Iraq in 2003 wasn't really expected and wasn't approved by the UN, but if you think further than your hate against the US you will understand it had its reasons too. Saddam Hussein was powerful, used WMD's (Weapons of Mass Destruction) before and could've had them by now if the invasion never happened. It's only guessing ofcourse, but Iraq WAS an actual treat to the world. I do not support that war either, but at least its a concern of the US now. Either way, it's very simple and hypocrite to say that US does things without reasons. You don't just send 10.000s of troops to a country because you like to. Like I said before. At least there is one country willing to do what is necessary. And sometimes, war is inevitable, but it's rarely a solution to solve a conflict.

Obama became President when the economical crisis was just started. You can't really expect much in less than a year.

Hoppah

[FireLt640]

Because I hate them. After the World War 2 they got troops in every part of the world with no reason. They had one attack on 9/11 and they made two wars for it. They kill millions but when somebody else kills some of them they begin to talk about union and patriotism and other bullsh*t. I don't have any problems with American people but I think that they should use their million guns against their politicians and companies CEO's instead of joining the USMC to kill some damn terrorists. They talk about union and their great country but still millions can't have proper healthcare. When Obama said that he was going to change that they accused him of being a socialist. This what a President has to be. A fuc*ing socialist. He must care about the people not the companies and the whole stupid capitalistic system. During the Cold War Americans have seen/read/heard tons of anti-Russian and anti-Communism propaganda and they are afraid of them now.

Get your facts straight, it wasn't just one attack on 9/11. The attack on the Twin Towers is just the most publicized, but there was also a 757 that crashed into the Pentagon and the terrorist-controlled United 93 that went down in Pennsylvania.

Oh, and lets not forget the terrorist attack on the USS Cole a few years ago.

[Forensics]

Get your facts straight, it wasn't just one attack on 9/11. The attack on the Twin Towers is just the most publicized, but there was also a 757 that crashed into the Pentagon and the terrorist-controlled United 93 that went down in Pennsylvania.

There are loads of theories that it wasn't a 757.

EDIT: just found these on youtube, not sure i believe them but they're still interesting.

[Voodoo_Operator]

There are loads of theories that it wasn't a 757.

It was a spaceship piloted by Xenu. He mistook the Pentagon for a friggin' volcano.

EDIT: Actually, Hulk Hogan did 9/11. I have photo evidence. Here, case closed.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Voodoo_Operator

[nick the greek]

@Hoppah

It may be strange but in many things I agree with you (WTF? ). I'm not a communist.

Yes unfortunately humans are egoists and this can't easily change. As for the wars: Vietnam was a total mess. People and animals were killed, forests were destroyed and all the money that went for this war could go for improving Americans lives. Korea War(which Greece took part in) should happen because North Koreans are a bit paranoid. In Somalia( my uncle went there as a navy doctor of UN) UN should stabilize the situation and then let some forces to keep peace*. The First Gulf War should happen too but NATO should completely destroy Saddam and bring freedom back to Iraqi people. The Second Gulf War should finish what the first didn't and free the people. Sorry but right now I can't think of anything else to write

* I don't know what exactly happened there.

[Hoppah]

There are loads of theories that it wasn't a 757.

EDIT: just found these on youtube, not sure i believe them buts they're still interesting.

[vague video]

Lets not go that way please. If you look close enough, you can see anything in that. Conspiracy theories are always incomplete, vague and done by wannabe scientists. With modern technology you can make anything look like something else. You just have to convince other people of your theory. I want to stay with the publicated and official facts.

[Forensics]

I agree, i would say over 95% of conspiracy theories are bullsh*t. With things like terrorist attacks the public can never really know happened because the FBI are so fast to snatch up any evidence. Unless you are senior in the intelligent service you can't know what really happened.

[erfd]

uhm, somalia have had civil war for many years...

I know, but the same thing happens over there.

[theparanoid]

The war against terror is not a legal war and can by that not be called a war...

To be a legal war it have to be approved by the UN Security council and it have to be against a country.

Its not a war, its a millitary operation

Well, the millitary operations goes under the so called "war" against terror... And no, it never got a go from the UN... And also, it clearly breaks the geneva convention when it comes to POW's

The Geneva Convetion protects victims of war. You claim this is not war. Please make up your mind. Also to be protect by the geneva conevition you have to fight in matter that follow what laid out in the geneva convetion

Example I am soilder, I put on a Red cross indicating I part of a medical unit. I and buddy get into ambulance had to any enmey camp and attack. The volites the Geneva Convention. If I were to be captured I would no longer have any geneva convention protections.

One of the staples of the geneva convention protection is you must be in uniform to have the protection. If your not your not entire to protection.

And your right it not a war. Congress has yet to declare a war. They have authrized the use of miltatary force in the defense of US from terriost attacks.

That mission has been highly succuesfully. About 4 Thousand died on 9/11/2001. Before the 9/11/2001 there were the

US Cole Bombing,

Before that there was the Khobar Towers attack on 25 June 1996. 19 Airman died in that attack. 502 where injured. The worse part about that attack. They guys that got killed and injured where suppose to leave the day before, however that departure date was scheduled and they were scheduled to leave 27 June 1996. I was station at Eglin Air Force base when these atack happen. One of the guys that died lived in a room below mine. My Uncle was assigned to the unit had the most death just 2 years early. He know most of those that died.

On 17 Nov 2000 I wrote a paper saying the US need to change it policy about dealing with terrorism. Because in the five years before that 221 American had died because of terrorist attacks compare to 147 American dying in the first gulf war.

Between 1983 and 17 Nov 2000 there were 15 terrorist attack against the US. Of those 15. They us only did something about 5 of them.

The bottom line is before 11 Sept 2001 the US was under a terriost attack almost every year. In which civilian and military personal were killed.

As of right know the last time the US was attack by a terriost was on 11 Sept 2001. That 8 Years and counting. I attach the paper where I got my facts from. Which has the source I used for the those numbers. The paper was turn on 17 Nov 2000. If you look at the pattern of terriost attacks you notice there was on other large time frame with no attacks. That was when Regan bomb library for the Berlin disco bombing. And for that bombing I was living in Germany. My dad was station at Landstuhl Second General Hospital, at the time it was the largest US Hopsital outside of the USA. I beleive it still is. He got call into work when the terrsiot attack happen and was gone for a good day or so. Working to save lives.

So please explain to me how people that willing to strap bombs to temself or place bombs to kill as many people as possible deserve the same protection as a solider wearing his countries uniform and protect his country? Cause that what the geneva coneveiton was for to stop bombimg and such attack for use in warfare.

terroristpaper.pdf