usmc123 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 (not really, but i know for a fact that the only reason theyre there isnt because theyre 'fighting for freedom')I'm not going to argue with you about oil and what not. But to say that the Iraqi people have not benefited at all is absurd. The Kurdish people are safe and free from Saddam's tyranny. How many free elections have been held in Iraq? In major Iraqi cities the streets are being patrolled by not Coalition forces, but Iraqi Police and Military (However, I think that this move should have waited). Several targets have been killed or captured, the royal family, Zarqawi, and other officials responsible for the Kurdish massacre and the tyrannical way of life forced upon the Iraqi people. There has been a tremendous cost, but when people compare the war to Vietnam it is absurd. Nearly 60,000 Americans lost their lives in a 10 year war (give or take). In Iraq (A seven year war) we have lost around 4 and half thousand American men and women, and have taken the lives of around 30,000 insurgents and other OPFOR groups and detained around 30 some thousand people (By Americans and Iraqi's). Maybe we went there for the wrong reasons but the end result seems pretty damn good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ami89E1234 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 i never said that Iraq wasnt in worse shape. what im saying is is that we shouldnt be there anymore. were done. weve done our job. like you said and everyone knows, the Iraqis have it under control. we should just pull out. let them deal with their own mess. Afghanistan has little hope of recovering, and i know were not doing anything to help them. why are we still helping the Iraqis?The worlds pop is already at 6.5 billion... the max amount of ppl it can hold is around 10 billion. end of story. we need to be focusing on space travel. put those billions of wasted dollars in the military into something more useful. the only way our species will survive is to move into space more.there are FAR greater things we should be doing of instead of war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taylor Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 we're withdrawing from Iraq as we speak.. if that's what we've been debating about, we can now have a good laugh...to say we aren't helping Afghanistan is absurd. I can get you some pictures of soldiers over in Afghanistan helping with kids and adults.. such as helping new mothers give birth, helping with kids after they just took shrapnel to the head because the taliban doesn't care where they plant IED's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xplorer4x4 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 ^we have been pulling out for a few days now I think, or atleast the announcment was made a few days ago as Connan was cracking jokes about it I think.i think that no one should give a damn about the theries or how it happend. With all the conspericy theries and so on people are starting to forget that people lost there lives. No matter what anyone says about how it happens or how a debate starts people need to focus on the friends and familes that lost loved ones in the attack. thats why i say start arguing about how it happened and start trying to prevent ANYTHING like it from happening again. i mean come on do people really think there are men and woman fighting and dying for are freadom just so people can argue about a terrible tragidy.So we shouldnt give a damn if it was an inside job? Not saying it is, if you havent noticed, just debating facts. I know if I lost some one that day I would care how it happened. Personally though, i think the more we try to prevent it, the more likley it is to happen. We are so focused on finding terrorists on places now, that surley they would take a different route this time. Maybe a bus or sub way station or train? Sooner or later it is going to happen and there is nothing we can do to stop it. Last time, it was a truck bomb in Oklahoma, this time was Airplanes. Ages ago the Japenese bombed pearl harbor(ok not quite the same thing but you get the idea). I dont look forward to the day it happens, but it will happen. As said above. World peace sounds great on paper but its not a reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter42 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 We shouldn't be in Afganistan. I think it's just going to be a repeat of when the Russians went there.So we shouldnt give a damn if it was an inside job? Not saying it is, if you havent noticed, just debating facts. I know if I lost some one that day I would care how it happened.I think some people should be allowed to stay ignorant of the 9/11 attacks if they wish to. That's their choice and they shouldn't have to be exposed to all these theories and conspiricies if it upsets them - Why such a person would post in a thread that's discussing this stuff is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xplorer4x4 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 I think some people should be allowed to stay ignorant of the 9/11 attacks if they wish to. That's their choice and they shouldn't have to be exposed to all these theories and conspiricies if it upsets them - Why such a person would post in a thread that's discussing this stuff is beyond me.Ignorant in which since? That it was an inside job or it was really an attack?I do agree with your general statement though. If you cant take the heat, stay out the kitchen, as its so often said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc123 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 We shouldn't be in Afganistan. I think it's just going to be a repeat of when the Russians went there.I think some people should be allowed to stay ignorant of the 9/11 attacks if they wish to. That's their choice and they shouldn't have to be exposed to all these theories and conspiricies if it upsets them - Why such a person would post in a thread that's discussing this stuff is beyond me.No, you should not keep a closed mind but if someone told you there was a leprechaun in your backyard, would you look under every blade of grass? Of course not, some people feel that way because they just don't see the theories the way other people do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundking Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Okay, first of all, I know I'm not american, and I know all that stuff. But thing is this has had an effect on Canada for sure. First of all, since we have gone over there on a peace keeping mission we have lost over 100 soldiers. Secondly I am against the war, I don't see why we should be over there, yes they have benefited from it, but I don't think we should be over there. I do not support the war, but I do support the troops. I look at it this way, either you stand behind them, or get in front of them. Hate to break it to you, a person is still a person. I personally do not agree with going over there in the first place for Canada let alone America. Also, I know I am not American, as stated above, BUT I do know what's going on, because I have well over 800 channels on tv, and more than half of them are American, and I spend most of my time watching those, and I'm pretty well plugged into the American side of things, probably more than Canadian. Don't for a second think I can't know what I'm talking about because I am from a different country. All I am saying is, quite frankly there is no need to be over there in such force as there is today. Now I know all the terrorist side of things, but if the gov't doesn't invade the terrorist bases every chance they can, and anger them as much as possible, then they would see America as less of a threat and worry about the other armies in there picking fights with them as well. Sometimes, the situation is clearer when you can sit on the outside and watch, and not be on a team in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter42 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Ignorant in which since? That it was an inside job or it was really an attack?I do agree with your general statement though. If you cant take the heat, stay out the kitchen, as its so often said.I meant in the sense that some people don't want to hear about all these beliefs that it was an inside job - which is fair enough if it upsets them.No, you should not keep a closed mind but if someone told you there was a leprechaun in your backyard, would you look under every blade of grass? Of course not, some people feel that way because they just don't see the theories the way other people do.I don't see the connection between your example and what I'm saying. And why shouldn't they be closed minded? Some people just want to grieve their lost one, not demand answers from the government. If they don't want to get involved or listen to conspiricies then they shouldn't have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matt31896 Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Just as a question, does any American think that it is okay if a person in the government (Senate, House O Reps., Pers.,etc.) gets drunk, drives a car, [gets pulled over, crashes and kills a civilan, or kill someone in their car], and gets off scott free? I don't . Anybody that agrees I like the way you think because I'm going to go to the Supreme Court and raise cane about that law, if you want to join my protest( ) PM me please. Gggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundking Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 I'm thinking this topic may be getting little old and may get out of hand... I'll be watching it to make sure it stays a good healthy debate, but any flaming and such and the topic will have to be closed. and no I don't think the double standard is fair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taylor Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Just as a question, does any American think that it is okay if a person in the government (Senate, House O Reps., Pers.,etc.) gets drunk, drives a car, [gets pulled over, crashes and kills a civilan, or kill someone in their car], and gets off scott free? I don't . Anybody that agrees I like the way you think because I'm going to go to the Supreme Court and raise cane about that law, if you want to join my protest( ) PM me please. Gggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!You're 13 right?Good luck with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matt31896 Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 What is your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc123 Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 From what I see he is saying that your opinion is void because of your age. Which, unfortunately is probably true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundking Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 The truth is, regardless of what anyone tells you.. The government doesn't care about anyone not old enough to vote, after all, if they want a second term, they need to keep the voters happy. Yes they will do a bit to keep you guys happy enough so that the voters will be content with how their children are being treated, but as for direct caring about your opinion.. Why should they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ami89E1234 Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 besides that do you know how few cases get into the Supreme Court each year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundking Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 And I have been told many a time by Candian cops (and court officials) as well as a few American ones I talk to that if a political figure gets caught, if anything DOES happen, it's going to be severely reduced and like a fraction of what I'd get if I did it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917893678251 Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Well,in china,freedom of religion isn't even there,you aren't even allowed to say Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundking Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 In china they are run by a communist government, so they don't get a lot of rights... The gov't says what they want, and if you don't like it, they'll come out in full force and take care of you. At least the American gov't gives more freedom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
