Emergency Questions

[Grim_Wizard]

Um, isn't the Hy- oops, never mind.

Fire Cheif mag = god awesome.

I used to have a subscription.

[MCERT1]

I think what mike is saying, is that the model we have is very incorrect to current vehicles used.

LACoFD Lifeguards have used Nissan trucks as primary patrol units since according to another website that I trust, the mid 1970's before the company was even called Nissan.

Baywatch used trucks which were provided initially by Toyota, and later by Ford and Chevy.

Now the actual primary patrol units are Ford escape hybrids

Even with the earlier Nissan contract, LACoFD Lifeguards also had some ford trucks but they were not primary patrol units.

For example:

A Modern Example

Older Photo

Note this information comes from EMT Bravo West, not my own knowledge.

[MikesPhotos]

I think what mike is saying, is that the model we have is very incorrect to current vehicles used.

LACoFD Lifeguards have used Nissan trucks as primary patrol units since according to another website that I trust, the mid 1970's before the company was even called Nissan.

Baywatch used trucks which were provided initially by Toyota, and later by Ford and Chevy.

Now the actual primary patrol units are Ford escape hybrids

Even with the earlier Nissan contract, LACoFD Lifeguards also had some ford trucks but they were not primary patrol units.

For example:

A Modern Example

Older Photo

Note this information comes from EMT Bravo West, not my own knowledge.

Mcert is right as usual. The LACoFD uses over 40 (i'm guessing it was 45 or so for the contract) Ford Escape Hybrids, but they also recieved 6 F-350s for special duty and useage such as towing. I think its 1 or 2 per Section HQ, Zuma Beach, Santa Monica, Marina Del Rey, Hermosa Beach and 1 or 2 at Catalina island. Nissan got the contract in 1999, and before that was before my time.

Of course you could always convert it over to an LA City lifeguard truck and use it around the lake on the deluxe map

[Xplorer4x4]

Well I suppose it will have to do. Looks like it was actually a combo between the Ford and Nissan as it has the extended cab like the Nissan but the Ford grill. Thanks for all the pics guys. I looked the other night and didnt have alot of luck, but i forgot to try flicker and your site mike.

Anyways the model I have will have to do as I cant alter it. Other then the grill its pretty accurate though.

I cant quite tell from the pics, atleast not 100% but did the nissians use MX7000 light bars? Looks like a red arjent on the new Escapes.

[jab16]

i don't know if this is icolated to one unit but did the La corners office switch to the red lightbars?

[MCERT1]

Well the van on T.V. this past night had amber lights

I know the mobile investigation truck does have red lights though.

[jab16]

yeah you saw what I saw

[MikesPhotos]

i don't know if this is icolated to one unit but did the La corners office switch to the red lightbars?

Medical Examiners (crown vics), Transport Vans, Investigators and others all have amber lights.

Special operations units which respond to mass casualty incidents such as plane crashes, terrorist attacks and such have red lights. Mostly mass scale refrigeration, command, and decon units.

I don't know what you saw, but I'd look again, it was probably amber.

[Guest chevyrulzs2010]

not really, a quint is like a cross between a pumper and a truck

a quint is a truck with a tank and a pump, it has to contain X amount of ground ladders, and the truck ladder, and has to contain X amount of hose, to be a NFPA compliant quint. Basically a quint has to be able to operate on a fire scene as a pumper if another is not avalible

[Xplorer4x4]

i don't know if this is icolated to one unit but did the La corners office switch to the red lightbars?

Well Mike was just mentioning something about this the other day so I am guessing between the time of his response and now it has changed. I forget where he posted it at, but i think it was his offering help thread in the LA Mod forum.

[Xplorer4x4]

Say you have a fire station operated by the city, but you have a Volunteer station, covering part of a Township, located 1 Mile away from the city operated station. Is it likely that central dispatch has some sort of system as to which company responds due to the emergency at hand. Fore example, medical assistance runs can be handled by the Volly company, while firers would be handled by the city? I ask this because the the Volly company handles medical runs in the area all the time, but any time a fire breaks out, which is usually after night, the city fire dept handles the runs. The volly station has 2 pumpers, and a quint, plus another pumper at another station not far away. The main station is staffed 24/7 though. Could it be the city generally feels there in equipped in man power to handle fires in city limits as opposed to out side city limits where the houses are more spread out and wildfires are non existent in this area.?

[MikesPhotos]

Say you have a fire station operated by the city, but you have a Volunteer station, covering part of a Township, located 1 Mile away from the city operated station.

Is it likely that central dispatch has some sort of system as to which company responds due to the emergency at hand.

Depends on the area. In many cases, Volunteers and Career depts do not play well with each other, and in many cases, as far as the Career company is concerned, the vollies don't exist.

Fore example, medical assistance runs can be handled by the Volly company, while firers would be handled by the city? I ask this because the the Volly company handles medical runs in the area all the time, but any time a fire breaks out, which is usually after night, the city fire dept handles the runs. The volly station has 2 pumpers, and a quint, plus another pumper at another station not far away. The main station is staffed 24/7 though. Could it be the city generally feels there in equipped in man power to handle fires in city limits as opposed to out side city limits where the houses are more spread out and wildfires are non existent in this area.?

Could be a number of reasons, not the least bit the amount of members of the volly company trained in firefighting vs ems, the number who actually respond when called up, past history and problems between the two, and so many other issues.

Your best bet, ask them. No two depts are ever the same, no two agreements for mutual aid, response, or training are the same.

[jab16]

So is la or any other city going to get rid of the police codes and start using regular english. I mean codes have a advantege because they are fast but not actually from my experance a majority of cops dont know every dispatch code and they can be easly get mixed up. But for regular english everyone can understand it may take longer but you wont have the confussion that comes from codes. I would like to hear some opinions on this

[MikesPhotos]

So is la or any other city going to get rid of the police codes and start using regular english. I mean codes have a advantege because they are fast but not actually from my experance a majority of cops dont know every dispatch code and they can be easly get mixed up. But for regular english everyone can understand it may take longer but you wont have the confussion that comes from codes. I would like to hear some opinions on this

Unlike in the mod, which for some stupid reason is using the horrible Florida codes and radio sounds again, LA City Fire uses clear text for all communications, and LAPD uses a mix of clear text and safety codes. Unlike 10-codes found elsewhere, there are just a couple of codes meant to convey special circumstances without alerting "normal" listeners of their nature. Because of the Laptop MDT's, you rarely hear any of them anymore, with the exceptions being "Code 6 C", Code 4 and 4A, Code 30, Code 5, Code 37, Code Tom and Robert. There are many more, but those are the most common and still fulfill the federal clear text requirement due to their special officer safety nature. You can read the full lapd communications manual here. LA doesn't use the 10-97 10-98 or any of those things. Most of the "codes" you will hear are things like 211, 459, and other numbers that are actually California penal codes describing the actual crime which all California officers will recognize, regardless of what dept they are with, thereby satisfying the basic need for clear text.

Also, as posted before on this board, here is a great website with numerous articles regarding the requirement that ALL departments abandon 10 codes

[Grim_Wizard]

Unlike in the mod, which for some stupid reason is using the horrible Florida codes and radio sounds again, LA City Fire uses clear text for all communications, and LAPD uses a mix of clear text and safety codes. Unlike 10-codes found elsewhere, there are just a couple of codes meant to convey special circumstances without alerting "normal" listeners of their nature. Because of the Laptop MDT's, you rarely hear any of them anymore, with the exceptions being "Code 6 C", Code 4 and 4A, Code 30, Code 5, Code 37, Code Tom and Robert. There are many more, but those are the most common and still fulfill the federal clear text requirement due to their special officer safety nature. You can read the full lapd communications manual here. LA doesn't use the 10-97 10-98 or any of those things. Most of the "codes" you will hear are things like 211, 459, and other numbers that are actually California penal codes describing the actual crime which all California officers will recognize, regardless of what dept they are with, thereby satisfying the basic need for clear text.

That's because Trooper or Sheriff (one of the two) was appointed to do the voiceovers and they're from Florida.

[Xplorer4x4]

^Im guessing the tillerman position atleast requires extra training atleast?

Anyways, this is kind of off topic but do the Firefighter Challenges Sponsored by Scott happen all over the country and generally draw alot of tourism if so? Reason I ask is apparently the past 5 years we have hosted the/a challenge here in Evansville. I went last year, but wasnt aware it happened in the past. Apparently the committee in charge is considering not bringing it in this year because of budget problems, but supposedly the firefighters are trying to find alternative ways to bring it to town because it draws alot of tourism and boost the local economy. Do you have a clue what I am talking about?

[MikesPhotos]

^Im guessing the tillerman position atleast requires extra training atleast?

Anyways, this is kind of off topic but do the Firefighter Challenges Sponsored by Scott happen all over the country and generally draw alot of tourism if so? Reason I ask is apparently the past 5 years we have hosted the/a challenge here in Evansville. I went last year, but wasnt aware it happened in the past. Apparently the committee in charge is considering not bringing it in this year because of budget problems, but supposedly the firefighters are trying to find alternative ways to bring it to town because it draws alot of tourism and boost the local economy. Do you have a clue what I am talking about?

I'm not exactly sure what your question is, but the Scott challenge is always a big draw for the local area. Out here we have something similar known as the Western States Police and Fire Games which includes the Ultimate Firefighter Challenge. Tons of info on it on google, this year it was hosted by the LASD and LACoFD in Santa Clarita. Next year it'll be in Reno, NV

[Xplorer4x4]

Ok I read this story on the local news:

http://www.14wfie.com/Global/story.asp?S=10820826

Do they have these all over the country? From the way you speak it sounds like they have variations of it at the least.

EDIT: Acidentley ended up on Scott's website, its the exact same thing as far as I can see.

[Xplorer4x4]

Hope its not to soon for a double post, if so sorry.

Just referring back to the CB Radio/radio discussion. How long have emergency service units been using radios vs cbs, and do they pick up cb frequenceys as well? I once heard and saw an Indiana State Trooper come across a CB radio. My dad and I had our cb radio on and as we came up an off ramp we heard an odd squeal on the cb. Then you hear

Voice 1 Truck Driver:"Are you after me?"

Voice 2 ISP: "No Im after the grey crown Vvictoria behind you"

No sooner we hear this hear comes a semi, a grey crown vic(old square body style) and a Indiana State Trooper. Semi brake checks the Vic and the Vic almost runs but thinks better of it.

Then of course theres the Smokey and the Bandit movies lol, but thats movies so not sure it really applies.

[MCERT1]

State Troopers still monitor CB Channels:

Ohio and Pennsylvania actually have signs posted along the highway which say what channel they monitor. It's very useful for highway officers, because often when accidents or dangerous drivers are causing problems, truckers are the only ones around and it gives them a direct patch to the Highway Patrol. It also works well for motor enforcement divisions too, when they set up mobile scale traps they monitor the CB to know when they need to relocate.

[Xplorer4x4]

^signs? really? Yeah I was taught that channel 19(i think) is usually used by truckers and thats the channel we used in his truck most of the time. I never thought of it from the trap side of things.

Thanks for the input MCERT.

[kyle308]

Thanks for the CDL clarification Mike. I'm not sure of the restrictions for the inner city departments, but I asked a firefighter at one of the volly stations across town and he said he wasnt sure how it worked but they were not required to have a CDL. There main engine only has 2 axles while the reserve is an old school(newly refurbished and looking quite good with out a yellow paint job) 1981 Duplex/Oshkosh/Pierce Pumper/Tanker - 1250gpm/2000gal but it does have 3 axels but perhaps it manages to stay under the weight limit?

I'm also from indiana and we avoid this because in the state of Indiana Emergency vehicles regardless of weight and axles are exempt from the CDL laws of our state.

[Xplorer4x4]

^Your from Knightstown? Your about 4 hours from me then. Thanks for the info.

[Guest Taylor]

I know that if a vehicle weighs a certain amount of pounds you have to have a CDL, however a volly FF thing might just make you take a few classes and drive the thing around in an empty field or parking lot.

[MikesPhotos]

Hope its not to soon for a double post, if so sorry.

Just referring back to the CB Radio/radio discussion. How long have emergency service units been using radios vs cbs, and do they pick up cb frequenceys as well? I once heard and saw an Indiana State Trooper come across a CB radio. My dad and I had our cb radio on and as we came up an off ramp we heard an odd squeal on the cb. Then you hear

Voice 1 Truck Driver:"Are you after me?"

Voice 2 ISP: "No Im after the grey crown Vvictoria behind you"

No sooner we hear this hear comes a semi, a grey crown vic(old square body style) and a Indiana State Trooper. Semi brake checks the Vic and the Vic almost runs but thinks better of it.

Then of course theres the Smokey and the Bandit movies lol, but thats movies so not sure it really applies.

Ok, lets state some specifics first:

CB as stated before is Citizens Band Radio, and like all radio bands, is governed by the FCC. It is only to be used for Commercial and Personal communications

Public Safety agencies utilize specific bands completely separate and vastly different then the way the CB system is set up.

It would be like calling an old rotary phone a Cell phone and vice versa, or even a Cell Phone a CB radio. They're similar in that they both let you talk to other people, beyond that, they have nothing in common.

CB radios work in the 27mhz range, Public safety equipment is in the 33-50mhz band for VHF-Lo, 150-174mhz for VHF-Hi, 450-470 for UHF, 470-512 for UHF-T band, 700 mhz band, and 851-869mhz.

Public safety agencies are barred from utilizing CB, Ham, FRS, and MURS bands for their routine radio traffic, and most radios are only able to receive and transmit on a single band.

So to answer your question about how long have they been using something other then CBs, well.. since the very beginning! CB radio has NEVER been utilized as a Public safety radio system, and it'd be useless to be used as such since repeaters are not allowed.

Now as mentioned before Highway patrol, State Police, and rural police will sometimes, though much rarer these days, install a CB radio or a common uniden/radio shack scanner so mobile units can monitor Ch9 and Ch19. Use of these channels by public safety agencies is ONLY to be utilized to talk TO civilians and not to be used to talk to each other or dispatch.

If you're interested in learning more about CB's And public safety communications, I recommend googling the history of the REACT group and Ch9 monitoring, as well as Harry Marnell's excellent history of LAPD and police communications from the 1920s here

I know that if a vehicle weighs a certain amount of pounds you have to have a CDL, however a volly FF thing might just make you take a few classes and drive the thing around in an empty field or parking lot.

The original question was regarding the California state law regarding the necessity of a CDL for Firefighters, as the topic moved out of the LA and state of California, I have moved it to this thread.

Let me address Taylors comment though, I don't know if you were being general or speaking about California or what your intent was, but let me clear up one thing here.

The rules regarding Commercial Drivers Licensure is governed by each individuals state Dept of Motor Vehicles and state Legislative bodies. California makes NO exception regarding paid career or volunteer firefighters regarding the CDL requirements. They must all pass the same DMV tests regardless of whether or not they are vollies.

Other states are much much more lenient and have blanket provisions that as long as you are a part of a Fire dept, you are granted an exception, others are much much more stringent and require a standard CDL with no Firefighter exception.

One thing to remember about Emergency services in the United States. Every single one of them is bound by federal regulations and standards such as OSHA and NFPA, State policies such as State Fire marshal regulations and rules, color of lights and types of sirens allowed, County policies, especially on EMS protocols, City policies, and then Department policies.

That is at least 5 different sets of regulations that each department will address in a different way, which is why we have such diversity in the Emergency Services compared to countries with just one body, one dept, one set of regulations, and one way of doing things.