Emergency Questions

[Xplorer4x4]

Yeah I was talking about the ford pick up.

For the FFs here, is it normal for people to just drop by the station to take pics?

[pyrothijs]

Yeah I was talking about the ford pick up.

For the FFs here, is it normal for people to just drop by the station to take pics?

Well normal is a big word... But sure it happens from time to time.

[MikesPhotos]

Yeah I was talking about the ford pick up.

For the FFs here, is it normal for people to just drop by the station to take pics?

Quick reply:

the trucks are used only for Investigative and logistical support

Depends on the department and the station and the policies post 9/11. LAFD stations have becoming near impossible to just drop by at from what I've heard, LACoFD fire stations are hit and miss, 127s (fabled sta 51 from the show) is always open to visitors, others will turn you away at the door and tell you to leave their property. When I was with Riverside Co FD, the stations with volunteers were more open then the straight CDF stations who would usually tell you to wait for the departments open house. The most common thing I've seen is if you come to take pics, instead of just a family dropping by to say hi, they'll ask to see some identification and make you sign a visitor guest log. It's not just 9/11 that has forced this, but people scouting stations and then waiting for a call to empty them before breaking in and robbing the firefighters blind.

The best way to do it is send a formal request to the departments PIO/FIO and make contact with that station before hand. Just be respectful, and if they say go away, don't start a fight because you will lose. Some children on this board and others, and in real life seem to have strange ideas of rights and rule of law, and remember, all government buildings are paid for by taxpayers, but they are still private property and private places of business and you have no right to be there if they tell you to leave.

[Xplorer4x4]

^I had no idea it was like that these days. I cant believe people would rob the ffs like that. I dont exactly approve of stealing in the first place but that takes it to the extreme there. Now I realize why one of the stations I stopped at today had heavy duty locks and key pads on the doors.

I did get to stop at one station and they were more then happy to even pull the trucks out for me. Of course I only asked for 2 of the 4 trucks but still. Not to mention the station is a run down POS and houses 2 Engines, a brush and a Chevy 5500 Medium Walk In Rescue parked in 2 single file rows. Happy to open the rigs up, explain the uses of the rigs. Hell he even pointed out that there main pumper has 1500 gallon tank while most of the city trucks have a 500 gallon. Explained why they also special in Hazmat, and alot of various reason for there apertures and techniques.

I also have another question. :$ A BLS FF would not be trained/allowed to use a defib right? So why do so many fire engines carry them if they cant use them?

[Newfoundking]

Most people now, be it ALS firefighter, BLS firefighter, cop, or even people like me are trained to use defibrillator, because it is part of the most basic first aid course. Now as for whether or not trucks carry them, yes a lot of them do, but you have to remember these are very expensive machines, ranging around a few thousand dollars.

Defibrillators are not really that hard to use in most cases, as things like this are becoming much more user friendly, so if they are ever needed, it doesn't take a doctorate to use.

Hope this might explain a bit

[Xplorer4x4]

Ok I just assumed since the EMTs on the LA Mod cant use them this was how it was in real life.

[Xplorer4x4]

Me again, back to bug you all more,

Is it common for CSI to drive the standard dept issue cv, or an undercover cv? Kind of like how our SWAT team some times responds in standard issue cvs..

[MikesPhotos]

I also have another question. :$ A BLS FF would not be trained/allowed to use a defib right? So why do so many fire engines carry them if they cant use them?

Most people now, be it ALS firefighter, BLS firefighter, cop, or even people like me are trained to use defibrillator, because it is part of the most basic first aid course. Now as for whether or not trucks carry them, yes a lot of them do, but you have to remember these are very expensive machines, ranging around a few thousand dollars.

Defibrillators are not really that hard to use in most cases, as things like this are becoming much more user friendly, so if they are ever needed, it doesn't take a doctorate to use.

Hope this might explain a bit

Ok I just assumed since the EMTs on the LA Mod cant use them this was how it was in real life.

Once again terminology plays a KEY role in understanding the vary complex set of procedures, protocols, and equipment used in Emergency Medicine. First off, there are two types of defibrillators in use today.

The Automatic External Defibrillator and the Manual Defibrillator. AED's automatically diagnose two types of irregular rhythms, ventricular fibrillation and ventricular tachycardia and shock if appropriate. Its a simple place the pads, press the button, let the machine do its thing. All Firefighters, EMT's and many lay people are trained to utilize these. Unfortunately, they only are effective in those 2 rhythms and nothing else. It is simply a follow the voice prompt "idiot-proof" tool. For most fire departments in Southern California, and LAFD in particular, here are the protocols for useage from LAFD SOP:

For cardiac arrests that are not witnessed by LAFD personnel, CPR shall be

performed for 2-3 minutes prior to application of the AED. Cardiac arrests

witnessed by LAFD members should have the AED applied as soon as possible.

Since ALS care is almost always on scene within that time of BLS care being on scene, the AEDs are rarely utilized but are there if needed.

Los Angeles County, and LACoFD especially, was one of the few test pilot programs to usher in the use of 12 Lead EKG Manual multi-functional defibrillator monitor such as the Lifepak 12. These machines are utilized by paramedics trained in Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS) and allow the medics to better diagnose and treat a plethora of other heart anomalies and rhythms beyond just v-fib and v-tac along with their boxes of heart drugs. Previously, they used standard 4 lead for years before companies were able to field a reliable and effective 12 lead similar to the large machines found in emergency rooms throughout the world.

So back to your question, FF's can and do use AED's, but not Manual Defibs. Only paramedics utilize those, and while you do not need a doctorate to use one, it does take many hours and a high level of knowledge and training to be able to understand the complexities of the machine and the heart.

[Xplorer4x4]

Many thanks again Mike. I witnessed a small structure fire tonight across the street from where I live. While it was a small fire there were 2 ladders/quints on scene, 2 pumpers, and a rescue squad truck. Oh and a bc and arson investigation was there. I am guessing this is pretty standard in apartment complex fires as I would imagine an aggressive attack is rather common for apt complex fires? Now i found it rather odd that most of the fire units, including the BC, were Evansville Fire Department(city units) because it falls under jurisdiction of Knight Township Fire Department which is located in Evansville, but is an all volunteer company. Now I have a few questions regarding the way things were handled. Now I realize with out knowing our dept policies its hard to give a precise answer, but I am merely asking for an educated guess here. Why send so many EFD units when Knight TWP has a station about 2 miles or less away housing a quint, 2 pumpers,and 2 BCs? Further more Knight TWP has another station about 10 mins away, but still pretty much right down the street, which also houses a pumper. My uneducated guess would be lack of man power due to being an all volunteer dept, while EFD is all paid. Another thing I noticed was I kept hearing a weird sound. A neighbor of mine was out side and asked me what it was. It was a strange beeping sound, and my guess would have to be one or two of the trucks had a carbon monoxide detector on board. It did not sound like your typical home smoke detector. Now the most surprising thing was that this truck, EFD Rescue 3 was dispatched from clear across town. Now since it is strictly a rescue and doesnt have a water tank. my guess is this truck was used as a rehab? They had something on board that they pulled out that took 2 firefighters to carry, and looked like a stretcher but was only like half the length and was about 1 foot in height. Any idea what this may have been?

Thanks to all of you for providing answers, its really intriguing to learn these things.

[Newfoundking]

well as for the response, it was probably due to the size of the building and the fire that the paid team was dispatched az they would arrive quicker than a volunteer fire department. As for the the thing that was taken off the truck, I don't know what it is, maybe it was a stretcher, but closed up or something, can you give a better description?

[Xplorer4x4]

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&r...le&resnum=1

There not that big. As for paid being faster response, the volunteer stations are usually staffed 24/7, so there response times would have been a bit quicker then the EFD station down the road one of the pumpers came from.

As for the device well it did kind of look something like a stretcher folded in 2, but since AMR was there and never got a stretcher out I dont see EFD getting a stretcher out,espically since none of there trucks are equipped for patient transport.

[jab16]

was it like any of these?

1)

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...sa%3DN%26um%3D1

2)

http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00Y...her-YDC-5L-.jpg

[Xplorer4x4]

No those are way to thin. Judging by the size of this thing it wasnt a stretcher. Plus no one was injured so there was never a need for a stretcher. This thing was probably about as thick as a bed mattress, if I had to guess the dimensions I would say 6 inches heights by 12 inches long, maybe 18 inches long. I cant describe it that well.

[pyrothijs]

was it like any of these?

1)

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...sa%3DN%26um%3D1

2)

http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00Y...her-YDC-5L-.jpg

I think it was the first one. It is used by ambualce crews as a ligthweight stretcher. Also the stretcher is about 1 meter long, but can be extended both ways for about 0.5 meters. So it can be placed in a crashed car to stabilize a patients spine and extended afterwards when the roof is removed. There are also stretchers like that that can be folded in stead of extended. That may explain why it looked different.

The second one is an evac chair. Out here ambulances do not have it. It is placed in buildings where people live who have difficulty walking. The evac chair can be used to help people get down the stairs much faster.

[Xplorer4x4]

It wasnt either. Even folded up it wouldnt be as thich as what I saw and since no one required a strecher there would be no point in a stretcher, and even if there was AMR would have used theres.

It was kind of D shaped.

[pyrothijs]

It wasnt either. Even folded up it wouldnt be as thich as what I saw and since no one required a strecher there would be no point in a stretcher, and even if there was AMR would have used theres.

It was kind of D shaped.

All right: another try

Maybe it was this:

http://district8.net/wp-content/09042008.jpg

It's a foldable platform that can be used to elevate fire fighters a few feet from the ground. That way they can reach the ceeling better if they need to take it out. Here we use it mainly for accidents with big trucks. We can deploy the platform and climb in the truck cab that way (or in the back as shown here ). Would be very logic to use that after an apartment fire and it would be logic to put it on a rescue truck.

When the platform is folded it's about a foot thick (25 cm), it can look like a D because of the rail (that's bigger then the platform and therefor the curves can make it look like a D).

I am at the fire station tuesday, I will see if I can take a picture of a folded one.

[Xplorer4x4]

Hmm I think what I saw had a cushion on it, but i cant be 100% sure. Plus I dont believe they had to poke holes in the roof or anything of that nature. There is visible smoke damage now, but I dont see holes in the roof unless there on the back side.

Maybe if I see it folded then I would know for sure.

[Newfoundking]

Well they might need it for other reasons the ventilation, there are many uses for it

[MCERT1]

The units responded may have been the result of simply what was available. The Volunteer department may have been tied up at the time. There are hundreds upon hundreds of well drafted contingency plans which explain who should go where if unit x isn't available. The 911 center has these in their computers and will dispatch appropriately. Also in volunteer areas I know of, they have a set procedure for dispatching calls. If a station cannot get underway within normally five minutes or two alarms, they will dispatch the next company. Also if the fire was confirmed as working prior to dispatch, they may have automatically bumped up priority and called EFD.

Also, in terms of attack, apartment complexes can go up in an instant. Many modern complexes have what is called open truss roof construction. basically they built the building as individual compartments that are sealed from each other, or every two apartments by a fire-wall capable of reasonably halting the spread of a fire. The problem is they leave the roof open, with no fire wall. This means the fire will travel across the roof and spread beyond the containment walls much faster. So an aggressive attack is very necessary.

Well the beeping sound was most likely the PASS. Personal Alert Safety System, it's attached to firefighter SCBA, and will trigger a shrill beep when someone remains still for an amount of time. Someone may have left theirs on after taking off their pack. Also the beep could have been from one of the pumps, they beep when the tank is low, full, or pressure is low, it all depends on model and make.

As for the Rescue, Rehab could be the reasonit was called. It may also have a portable cascade system to fill SCBA's which is sometimes necessary. The Unit could have also been called as a RIT (Rapid Intervention Team) they stand by ready to go in and rescue injured fire crews. The truck may have also been carrying necessary tools need by the crews on scene. My guess would be that it was a RIT crew for the fire.

Perhaps the large object was just a heavy duty ventilation fan on it's side?

[jab16]

Ok i have a question that has been on my mind for some time. about 2 months ago a quint, 2 pumper trucks, and an ambulance, along with a battalion chief responded to call right across the street from me, the thing was the firefighters responded IN SCBA gear, after about ten minutes the engines , qunit, and battalion chief were still there but one pumper truck lef.t but later about 25 minutes into it the battalion chief, quint, and other pumper just left and drove around my naborhood for about 45 minutes before they dissapered. and while those three units drove around the ambulance just sat there with the emt's in it, in fact they never got out of it. Then five minutes after the 3 other units left the ambulance left. I would have asked but they were all focused on somthing and did not say anything to me. No one was removed from the house and there was no smoke. Could it have just been a slow night, also is the driving around the area normal. Any answer helps as i am VERY curious about this.

[MikesPhotos]

Ok i have a question that has been on my mind for some time. about 2 months ago a quint, 2 pumper trucks, and an ambulance, along with a battalion chief responded to call right across the street from me, the thing was the firefighters responded IN SCBA gear, after about ten minutes the engines , qunit, and battalion chief were still there but one pumper truck lef.t but later about 25 minutes into it the battalion chief, quint, and other pumper just left and drove around my naborhood for about 45 minutes before they dissapered. and while those three units drove around the ambulance just sat there with the emt's in it, in fact they never got out of it. Then five minutes after the 3 other units left the ambulance left. I would have asked but they were all focused on somthing and did not say anything to me. No one was removed from the house and there was no smoke. Could it have just been a slow night, also is the driving around the area normal. Any answer helps as i am VERY curious about this.

So lets break this down..

• 2 Engines, 1 Quint, BC, Ambulance respond to a call
  
• Firefighters enter the premises in full PPE
  
• 10 mins later, 1 engine is released
  
• 25 mins later, remaining units investigate the area
  

Sounds to me like a smell of smoke, natural gas, or some other odor prompted the call. They responded with a typical structure response, got on scene, made their initial investigation, found nothing, and proceeded to drive around the area to see if they could locate the source until it dissipated. This happens a lot with methane from sewers or smell of electrical smoke from underground vaults. It usually manifests itself as a heavy initial release then dissipates over time as units make sure the issue is temporary and localized instead of part of a larger problem.

Many times the initial dispatch is incorrect as well. Someone calls to report that they smell smoke in the area, but instead say something is on fire and hangs up, dispatch sends a structure assignment who enter in full gear, only to find that someone was smelling a bbq from down the street.

Other times it's just a smell call and a few streets over you'll find public works send a man underground to locate the source and issue. Remember, FD responds to who calls, not necessarily where the problem actually is at first.

[jab16]

ok thank you. Kind of weird i did not smell anything but then again it was like 11:00pm. always nice to hear your response Mike thank you But wouldn't pd be there if it was some sort of gas leak?

[MikesPhotos]

ok thank you. Kind of weird i did not smell anything but then again it was like 11:00pm. always nice to hear your response Mike thank you But wouldn't pd be there if it was some sort of gas leak?

Why would PD be needed? Fire depts throughout the country respond to natural gas leaks, and all too often, construction accidents that puncture a pipeline. More often then not, it just involves turning off the gas to the home (shockingly simple, i know!) and notifying the gas company. Rarely, and I stress, RARELY, is a large scale evacuation of the area needed which might require pd assistance. Agencies respond in full structure fire mode just in case the worst case scenario occurs and there is an explosion or fire while en route.

As for smell, depends if you were upwind or downwind, and where it was localized.

[jab16]

ok that makes sence

PS: are you a magican you know everything

[Xplorer4x4]

The police took forever to show up the other day when there was a fire across the street. All they did was partially block the road so no one ran over the supply line for one of the engines, yet some dumb girl tried to go around the cop and was going to drive over the hose. Then another cop showed up, got out of his car, and stood there talking to the cop, who was in his cruiser blocking the road. Didnt even bother with directional lights is memorey serves me right.