Emergency Questions

[Newfoundking]

Hold on, let's build a half million dollar fire truck, because we all have that amount of cash lying around

[Xplorer4x4]

the round peice on the front is a Federal Signal Q siren...a very loud and impressive siren

and it depends on the department if they want to play the radio over the speaker....in my opinion it just ads another loud noise to an incident

vehicles can communicate at such long ranges not only because of the antenna but also radio towers,and a repeater system.

I know what the Fed Q is, I love them! I just didnt know they used to come equipped like that.

I am not a FF or anything but I wouldnt like it either.

Well my question was more of how they can do it with no antennas. Here none of the police vehicles have antennas except a 3 inch one on the back window, but I get the idea. Thanks for the answer.

[Ami89E1234]

Hold on, let's build a half million dollar fire truck, because we all have that amount of cash lying around

we could get some nice $15000 ones from Fenton Fire

like this $12000 (reduced price) Mack:

[MCERT1]

Theoretically fog units still do exits. Vehicles like the Hungarian "big wind" and the Turbo-Löschers in Germany work on roughly the same principal. The problem is whether the amount of water used and energy expended is really worth it. In America, it's been pretty well decided that it isn't worth it. I do believe that there are still some units similar still kicking around, though. Also thanks to modern technology, any unit can provide a fog setting based on attachments and setting. Back in the earlier era nozzles and pumps were not as advanced, you needed more specialized equipment to achieve the effect you can get now from a standard engine.

One more thing, fog units were one of many fads that occurred as American firefighting developed. You can see a string of units with unique and new ways of putting out fires present over this time. The earliest I can think of are chemical cars and engines. Even today, some places have hi-ex foam units which are really only rarely of much use.

[theparanoid]

ahh never actually seen those in use so I wondered.

What about the big round piece in the middle of the front

http://www.indianafiretrucks.com/pictures/...le/engine-2.jpg

And is it usual for fire trucks to have there cb radio going over the loud speaker?

Speaking of cb radios, just wondered how, for example police cars, get such great range out of them when half the time they dont even have any large antennas on them?

Well two things CB a antenna is basicly a long copper wire. How it is packaged makes a difference.

Also while it may be illegal to us more the 5 watts for a citizan, I am not sure if the police are expect from this. My gues is they are and the radio is more then 5 watts.

[Newfoundking]

I do believ emost departments now use something more advanced than a CB radio

[Guest PVFD]

yeah....i think the lowest wattage we have is a 60 watt radio...i cant remember for sure tho...the highest is around 120 i think..so theyre pretty powerful radios

[Xplorer4x4]

I do believ emost departments now use something more advanced than a CB radio

I think there still CBs there just more advanced then what you typically see for civilian use but I could be wrong.

[Newfoundking]

yeah, that is what I meant, kinda like a digital CB Radio... but well same Idea, but more powerful

[Xplorer4x4]

Oh I see what you mean.

Now I dunno if USAR dog teams are trully apart of the LAFD or if this was simply done to stick with the format of the original game, but this brings me to a question for those of you with USAR teams in your area, are they allowed to respond code 3? I spoke to the team that does USAR dog training and calls in my area and they said the state doesnt allow them to have lights or sirens. However, since they all drive there own personnel vehicles when they are called, some of the members may have lights or sirens because they are volunteer firefighters. Even in that case I dont think there allowed to respond code 3 to a USAR operation.

[MikesPhotos]

anyone know of any fire departments that still use fog units? theyre kinda more effective than water...

no, a fog unit is an engine that uses fog to put out a fire. can be more effective than water because

a. it encompasses a larger area

b. spreads out

c. little water damage

d. can be used against basically everything

e. suffocates fire

Fog units went out back in the early 70's due to the fact that you CANNOT use them against anything. The problem with the Bean Fog Units was that the high pressure fog would cause steam burns in many situations and it did not provide enough extinguishing power for interior attack. Outside dumpster fires, some car fires, and now and then a small grass fire were about their only real use. Structure fires, interior fires, anything with a high volume of flame, wind, or enclosed space made it useless.

Instead today most departments employ combination nozzles on their hoses and deck guns that allow for straight stream or fog so that the firefighter can select the appropriate tool for the job without being locked into just one. Also, today most units have the capability of using CAFS and other foam systems that make dedicated fog units obsolete and useless.

And is it usual for fire trucks to have there cb radio going over the loud speaker?

Speaking of cb radios, just wondered how, for example police cars, get such great range out of them when half the time they dont even have any large antennas on them?

Well my question was more of how they can do it with no antennas. Here none of the police vehicles have antennas except a 3 inch one on the back window, but I get the idea. Thanks for the answer.

CB is a very specific name for a very specific thing. Citizens Band radio used to be a big thing in the 60's and 70's long before the advent of portable cell phones and roadside call boxes in many states. It was a low power (when used legally) non-licensed radio system that any one could use without having to take any tests or licensing procedures with minimal rules by the FCC. It's frequencies were in the 27mhz range and required a long whip antenna. Police, Fire and EMS agencies utilize completely different, and much more advanced, radio systems. Utilizing such technology as repeaters, trunking, digital systems, cross band patches, and other technology, they can be found in the VHF-Lo band (42mhz), VHF-Hi (150mhz), UHF-T band (470-507mhz), or 800mhz regions. Soon the FCC will be consolidating all Public Safety radio systems into the new digital 700mhz spectrum, but that is still pretty far off.

Now to answer your questions, Is it usual for fire trucks to relay their radio traffic over a loud speaker? The answer is that it is up to the Captain, and usually the Engineers discretion. What you probably heard was NOT coming from the siren system, but from a speaker over the pump panel as you can see in these two pictures:

(top right flush circles)

Nearly all Engines have a speaker and a plug in jack for a headset, so that the Engineer can hear the radio traffic when operating the pump panel. Sometimes they'll flip it on when they can't hear their portable radio while on an incident as well, but that tends to be rare.

As for the antenna, each band has different requirements for an optimal antenna. The lower the band, the longer the antenna is, is the general rule of thumb. You'll find LONG whips on CHP cars because they operate on the 42mhz spectrum and tend to travel long distances in low/moderate radio coverage. Other departments might have a great repeater system and operate on UHF-T, or 800mhz which requires small antennas, like your cell phone. Departments in more urban settings might go with a stealth antenna which is just a small stub or even a flat pancake on their vehicles since it cuts down on intermod and other interference, yet they can still hit the repeater and talk 100 miles away depending on the system. Here in California, we have various statewide repeater networks that allow me to use a radio in San Diego by the Mexican border and talk to a logistics base up by the Oregon border 691 miles away.

Remember when they design a radio system, the key thing is coverage. Very few systems have just one antenna or repeater, but instead have a network of voters and repeaters that blanket an area so that you do not need high power radios or long antennas, even in more rural areas. Most mountain tops and large buildings are literal antenna farms bristling with hundreds of different users trying to get the best coverage possible in their area.

Now I dunno if USAR dog teams are trully apart of the LAFD or if this was simply done to stick with the format of the original game, but this brings me to a question for those of you with USAR teams in your area, are they allowed to respond code 3? I spoke to the team that does USAR dog training and calls in my area and they said the state doesnt allow them to have lights or sirens. However, since they all drive there own personnel vehicles when they are called, some of the members may have lights or sirens because they are volunteer firefighters. Even in that case I dont think there allowed to respond code 3 to a USAR operation.

Depends on the departments policy and if the USAR dog team is part of the department of if its just a volunteer with a trained dog. Usually if the dog and handler are part of the department, they'll be allowed to respond with lights and sirens in most areas. In fact, some departments even give their handlers vehicles much like police K9 units have.

Here is Corona Fire Depts USAR K9 vehicle, which is a city just outside of Los Angeles County.

[Newfoundking]

In addition to the USAR dog one... What does LAFD do for that?

[MikesPhotos]

In addition to the USAR dog one... What does LAFD do for that?

LAFD does not rely on volunteers, but instead has fabled member Fire Inspector/Lead Paramedic Deresa Teller and her dog ranger on its staff. Her vehicle response to incidents would most likely be based on time and day of callup an whether she is on duty for her regular shift or not.

LACoFD does not provide vehicles to their members, and they respond in heavily modified POV's. Last time I checked there were over 4 teams made up of LACoFD members.

Most around here do provide the vehicles though.

[Xplorer4x4]

lol wow that was alot mike, but thanks for the super informative answers.

In terms of the loud speaker, maybe thats what it was( a speaker over the pump). I was referring to a few weeks ago my friend/neighbor had an accidental of on a legal script of zanax. Theres a fire station near by and so the FD was first on scene. Here Fire Depts provide low level bls till AMR arrives, and the FD had the radio broadcasting out loud, but every FF on scene was inside his apartment except when one went to grab a back board and c-collar I believe.

[Newfoundking]

@mike

Thanks for explaining the USAR dogs... I was just wondering how it was done, like I knew they had someone paid to do it, but I wanted to know how it was done. I think I get it now thanks

[Xplorer4x4]

Is there any particular reason as to why the USFS trucks have pumps on the rear?

And second, just wondered if Ford makes any sort of interceptor packages for the Tarus? Occasionally I notice them used as undercover cars like yesterday I saw a navy blue one that was undercover.

[MikesPhotos]

Is there any particular reason as to why the USFS trucks have pumps on the rear?

Safety and tactics. On a house fire, you park your apparatus in front of the involved structure and you are between the fire and the apparatus. That is not necessarily a good place to be on a wildland or forest fire. This allows the apparatus to be parked facing out, with the rear towards the fire for ease of use and escape. The newer rigs are also having side pumps and connections for progressive hoselays and structure protection for a compromise of both missions. But for the longest time, all USFS Type III's were rear pumps.

And second, just wondered if Ford makes any sort of interceptor packages for the Tarus? Occasionally I notice them used as undercover cars like yesterday I saw a navy blue one that was undercover.

Nope, the only special service/police packages ford currently makes are the Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, Expedition Special Service Vehicle, Explorer Special Service Vehicle and the E-Series Van & Wagon

[Xplorer4x4]

Nope, the only special service/police packages ford currently makes are the Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, Expedition Special Service Vehicle, Explorer Special Service Vehicle and the E-Series Van & Wagon

What kind of mods does the Explorer and Expedition use? I would guess modified sway bars, suspension tweaks, and things like that to help it in cornering? And maybe some armor if there feds? What about the Econoline? The only purpose I have seen them serve is for transporting alot of people which there already designed for anyways so its not like they need suspension tweaks.

[MikesPhotos]

What kind of mods does the Explorer and Expedition use? I would guess modified sway bars, suspension tweaks, and things like that to help it in cornering? And maybe some armor if there feds? What about the Econoline? The only purpose I have seen them serve is for transporting alot of people which there already designed for anyways so its not like they need suspension tweaks.

The only differences are found in the electrical setup to accommodate the excess power drain and wiring for radios, sirens, lightbars and such

[Newfoundking]

most cars chosen for policing usually don't need any adjustments from factory default except minor things like power and that.. Elsewise it would be too expensive to make. When companies make certain types of cars, they have ideas for what they want, like if they want it to be a cop car, they make it suitable to be a cop car.

[Xplorer4x4]

Thanks Mike.

@NFK, yeah i see what you mean just figured they had upgrades to improve there handling, but then again chances are there not going to be primary on a high speed chase, and if they are needed in a chase due to terrain I suppose the other vehicles probably not much fast or better handling then the Explorer Expedition/Explorer.

Last question for awhile, maybe.

Is the E-series pretty much the standard for a coroner to use for transporting bodies? I have looked all over the net and havent been able to find the coroners van for my city/county.

[MikesPhotos]

most cars chosen for policing usually don't need any adjustments from factory default except minor things like power and that.. Elsewise it would be too expensive to make. When companies make certain types of cars, they have ideas for what they want, like if they want it to be a cop car, they make it suitable to be a cop car.

Exactly and that is why the Dodge Charger lost out on the CHP Contract. CHP notified them recently that they will be sticking with Ford at least until 2010. Chrysler, in their infinite wisdom, "forgot" to include the price of the ballistic door panels in the contract and it became a huge bureaucratic pissing match with Dodge eventually losing. The handful of ones that were delivered with ballistic door panels may still be deployed, here and there, but most will be relegated to show cars, special duties, and stuff of that nature.

It always comes down to cost, and that little item pushed the cost beyond the acceptable limit.

[Newfoundking]

In reference to the E-series used for coroners, a lot of agencies use them, because they provide the space, and are relatively cheap. However some places also use other types of vehicles for coroners.

Basically it is like crown victorias and patrol cars, They dominate it pretty much. Now you will see other ones occasionally, but the main one is crown vics, the same is true for coroner vans

[Xplorer4x4]

Yeah I notice LA has CVs and trucks for there coroners. The Trucks look like they could fit 2 bodies in its utility bed.

[Newfoundking]

Um, to my knowledge (might not be completely acurate) but the LA county coroner only uses this type of vehicle for transportation of bodies.

The rest are for investigative, or whatever. But if you meant something like this Those don't do transportation of bodies...

-NFK