Emergency Questions

[Xplorer4x4]

The truck is a peterbuilt, not sure what year or model.

I had a question again as well, could some one explain why a FD would go TAC5 and TAC7 and what these mean? The meaning probably differ from place to place I would guess, but if any one has a rough idea. Not one of the responses this was used was a Horse stuck in a fence, the other an MVA with a car being flipped several times and knocked off the road way completely.

[jab16]

My gues would be that they are diffrent dispatch codes for diffrent kinds of either rescue assingments, like Tactal Rescue type 5 or 7, or the unit and call signs for a specialized rescue team numbers 5 and 7. Just a guess though.

I have seen records for places like Sacramento using the Tac call sign for command units, it may also be a special channel.

[Xplorer4x4]

Jab, you were right. After doing some research looks like there are several Tac talk groups available for the various county fire agencies around town.

[kyle308]

i know here in my county we have 3 fire tac channels. 1 EMS tac channel. and one talk around channel(itst the frequency that was used by an EMS provider here in my town in the late seventies that for some reason we still own the FCC rights to lol. so its programmed in everyones radio and we can chat on it)

[Xplorer4x4]

Yes its similar here. EFD has a Fire Tac channel, then each County Department has there own tac channel and since only the various county departments can provide mutual aid to each other(yet the county can provide hazmat mutual aid to the city), theres a mutual aid talkgroup as well. And since we utilize AMR for Ambulance service AMR has there own dispatch and actually codes the patient condition, which is stupid because fire is almost always dispatched first and fire doesnt code the conditions so its rather pointless if you monitor both FD and AMR. AMR also has there own Tac channel to but i never notice anything being said on there.

There was a younger female, probably in her 20s or so working dispatch last night about 2 or 3 AM. She was trying to dispatch an ambulance who wasnt reponding. She said Medic #, I have a run for you. Its a city run. No response from the crew. She tries again. No answer. She then says something like, that where you go to do your thing, where you do the other thing, and then you take them to the other thing. Kind of funny:p

[Xplorer4x4]

Now I was under the impression that suicidal patients were always arrested and taken into custody. Is this true? If so does this require an official, say a dispatcher, an officer, ff,etc, to actually here the threat in order to take them into custody?

[kyle308]

thats not true. mental health is a medical condition. so as such dependign on this system some mental subjects are treated and transported by EMS. If the pose a threat to others an officer may ride in with the crew. In other systems EMS and police are both dispatched but if the person has not injured themselves they may be taken to the ER for psychiatric evaluation by the police.

and they arnt so much arrested as simply taken into protective custody.

[FireLt640]

To clarify just a bit on the TAC channels, they are usually line-of-sight short range channels used on the fire grounds.

For example, say they is a structure fire and a woods fire that tone out at roughly the same time. The OIC of the first unit that arrives at their scene usually says something like "Engine 1 on scene, Capt. 1 establishing Brown Rd. command. Switching to TAC 1." At this point, everyone with a radio switches to TAC 1 and the engineer of the 1st in truck monitors the main dispatch frequency on the truck radio.

The crew on the other scene then uses TAC 2 for their fireground ops.

This keeps the dispatch channel clear for subsequent calls and calls for additional units.

There again, this was the protocol for my department and varies by agency. As a general rule, TAC channels are not capable of using repeaters.

[Xplorer4x4]

thats not true. mental health is a medical condition. so as such dependign on this system some mental subjects are treated and transported by EMS. If the pose a threat to others an officer may ride in with the crew. In other systems EMS and police are both dispatched but if the person has not injured themselves they may be taken to the ER for psychiatric evaluation by the police.

and they arnt so much arrested as simply taken into protective custody.

Well reason I ask, the cops made several runs to an apt in my complex the other day. Guy in the apt was drunk, girl wanted in. Had called the cops a few times and the cops were fed up and pretty much told the girl tough luck getting in. She called back later saying the guy was threatening suicide. One cop car/2 officers showed up, AMR never stopped at the scene, just circled the parking lot. They didnt take the guy into custody nor to the hospital.

To clarify just a bit on the TAC channels, they are usually line-of-sight short range channels used on the fire grounds.

For example, say they is a structure fire and a woods fire that tone out at roughly the same time. The OIC of the first unit that arrives at their scene usually says something like "Engine 1 on scene, Capt. 1 establishing Brown Rd. command. Switching to TAC 1." At this point, everyone with a radio switches to TAC 1 and the engineer of the 1st in truck monitors the main dispatch frequency on the truck radio.

The crew on the other scene then uses TAC 2 for their fireground ops.

This keeps the dispatch channel clear for subsequent calls and calls for additional units.

There again, this was the protocol for my department and varies by agency. As a general rule, TAC channels are not capable of using repeaters.

Well it differs a bit here. Call tones go out, trucks dispatched, and when the truck(s) say in route, dispatch gives them any extra details, and then says all further traffic on TAC X, and depending on the department they go to Tac4,5,6,7 and possibly 8, cant recall off hand. At times they do as you say and if they get on scene and find an actual working fire, then they will say switch to TAC X.

[kyle308]

yeah after our units are enroute they give us additional info and they say you have fireground 1,2,3 or EMS tac

[Pumper42]

Well reason I ask, the cops made several runs to an apt in my complex the other day. Guy in the apt was drunk, girl wanted in. Had called the cops a few times and the cops were fed up and pretty much told the girl tough luck getting in. She called back later saying the guy was threatening suicide. One cop car/2 officers showed up, AMR never stopped at the scene, just circled the parking lot. They didnt take the guy into custody nor to the hospital.

Well it differs a bit here. Call tones go out, trucks dispatched, and when the truck(s) say in route, dispatch gives them any extra details, and then says all further traffic on TAC X, and depending on the department they go to Tac4,5,6,7 and possibly 8, cant recall off hand. At times they do as you say and if they get on scene and find an actual working fire, then they will say switch to TAC X.

Ya somewhat like the guy above answered, but he is talking alittle more about talk around channels for single channel fd's. What you are talking about is larger dept.'s multiple channels. So just like you said when being dispatched to a call they will be given a channel, when the next truck goes out they will be given a tac channel and so on. This way they can have much more activity in the city and don't have to designate channels just give them as needed.

[Guest dionissimus]

Very interesting reading, all - thanks for that : ) On the suicide topic, the first thing I did when I encountered the event in 911FR the first time, was to send a negotiator to the scene. Imagine my surprise when it produced exactly zero results. From what I know, it is a common practice to send a police or med shrink* to a scene like that. Or is it just my imagination?

*shrink= american slang for a psychologist.

[Newfoundking]

It depends on the situation... if you have someone with a gun to head, it might be much different approach compared to someone on a ledge ready to jump.. in jumper situations, negotiators or whatever are brought in sometimes.. But like if a guy hanged himself, a negotiator wouldn't help, so you'd have to send in a different approach team. Just like if a person tied themselves to train tracks, a negotiator wouldn't help, you'd call in someone to stop the train and someone to move them. There isn't really much else to do in situations like that.

There are so many ways to kill oneself, so it depends on the method, for what vehicles respond

[Guest dionissimus]

Thanks for the clarification : ) Now, that's quite some food for thought...

EDIT: And it would be great if someone modded the suicide jumper script so that the user can send a negotiator to the scene, and that would either solve the situation completely (pointer to "refuse to jump" or whatever that outcome is called... don't remember) or bought more time for the USAR to arrive. Not that USAR can't handle the thing by themselves in-game, but... it just that the whole event looks rather silly. I am about to banish it from my freeplay events - compared to the rest of the events, it is SO unrealistic, my "suspense of disbelief" (which is a major concept and implementation concern in gaming) suffers greatly.

[Newfoundking]

Freeplay missions are hard to script as such, and as far as I know, in the freeplay mission script are brutal to script if possible at all.. So to re-do that event would be hard.. Though it would be better in my opinion too.

[Grim_Wizard]

It's effectively hardcoded. But what he's talking about is a command. It's possible. Write a command script that adds X ammount of time to suicide jump

"Set_Suicide_Timer:+Xammount" or something like that.

[andrew2007]

I've got curious question(s)

1. Within the US, is there one radio network or liason channel that all services can cross communicate on in the event of many different services working together? I.E Here in NSW we have the GRN, Most of the Major Services here use that, and there are special liason channels for such a thing.

2. What staffing/roster system do the majority of the Fire Departments use? Here in NSW, the Fire Brigade use the 10/14 system - 2 days on at 10 hours each, then 2 nights on at 14 hours each, then 4 days off (That's for the permanent firefighters anyway)

s

3. In regards to primary combat agencies (agencies which are responsible for particular things, i.e medical, hazmat, etc) is there federal or state governing laws which overview these assignments?

[Xplorer4x4]

Ya somewhat like the guy above answered, but he is talking alittle more about talk around channels for single channel fd's. What you are talking about is larger dept.'s multiple channels. So just like you said when being dispatched to a call they will be given a channel, when the next truck goes out they will be given a tac channel and so on. This way they can have much more activity in the city and don't have to designate channels just give them as needed.

So am I. For example Scott Township is 4(4 Engine 1,3 Quint 1,etc) while Knight township whos territory borders near the area I live is 6, and McCutchanville is 5.

So therfore in the event of a Fire or MVA or medic Assist(County Fire goes for ALL medical calls):

Scott Township would use TAC 4 only.

McCutchanville uses TAC 5.

Knight Township uses TAC 6.

Perry Township uses TAC 7.

German Township uses TAC 8.

So for example, there was a house set on fire by a man to kill his 2 soon to be step kids while the mom was at work. He was successful, I am sad to say and now 2 young children are dead. German Township received the call. They arrived on scene and found the fire to be extremely hot due to the use of accelerants, and called in Scott and I believe, McCutchanville or possibly Perry. Since German was primary they assumed command, and all assisting agencies used TAC 8. Now lets say Knight and German both get calls for MVAs 5 min apart. Knight would use 6, and German would use 8. Knight would never use TAC 8 unless assisting German.

[kyle308]

I've got curious question(s)

1. Within the US, is there one radio network or liason channel that all services can cross communicate on in the event of many different services working together? I.E Here in NSW we have the GRN, Most of the Major Services here use that, and there are special liason channels for such a thing.

2. What staffing/roster system do the majority of the Fire Departments use? Here in NSW, the Fire Brigade use the 10/14 system - 2 days on at 10 hours each, then 2 nights on at 14 hours each, then 4 days off (That's for the permanent firefighters anyway)

s

3. In regards to primary combat agencies (agencies which are responsible for particular things, i.e medical, hazmat, etc) is there federal or state governing laws which overview these assignments?

1. I'm not 100% but I do not believe there is a nationwide communication system. here in Indiana we have whats called the Hoosier Safe-T system which is a state wide 800mhz system that can be used anywhere in the state.

2. The majority of fire departments here in the U.S. use a 24 hours on duty at the station and then 48 hours off duty at home.

3. for specific things there are some federal laws which govern how things are done but for the most part things differ widly from state to state as the states are in charge of their own services. alot of fire departments and EMS services even differ from county to county within a state.

[Xplorer4x4]

In addition to Kyle's 1, Project Hoosier Safe-T is only utilized by Indiana State Police.

Kyle, do you know if any local law enforcement agencies in the state can utilize PHST if needed?

[Xplorer4x4]

Any on heard the term "grant car" before? Atleast thats what it sounded like to me.

[njboy13]

Any on heard the term "grant car" before? Atleast thats what it sounded like to me.

Never heard of that term before. Where did you hear it?

[Xplorer4x4]

Scanner listening to the locals. Cant recall if it was PD,SD,or State. Hell it could have been DNR seeing as the online feed picks up DNR as well. Next time i hear it, ill note the context.

Also, seen a Sheriff cruising through the apt complex the other day. Now I live near the city limits boundary, so usually only Police Respond but on occasion Sheriffs will assist. He was cruising through with spotlight on, so i flipped on the scanner, and caught him saying he was going to be doing a personal notification. Never heard that one before, any idea what he meant?

[njboy13]

Also, seen a Sheriff cruising through the apt complex the other day. Now I live near the city limits boundary, so usually only Police Respond but on occasion Sheriffs will assist. He was cruising through with spotlight on, so i flipped on the scanner, and caught him saying he was going to be doing a personal notification. Never heard that one before, any idea what he meant?

Not completely sure, but I'd assume it means that he's either 'going on a personal' (like if there is a family emergency or something), or it might mean that he is personally (in person) notifying a family of a death or somebody going to jail. As I said, I'm not sure though.

[Xplorer4x4]

Late reply, thanks NJ.

Another question. saw footage of 9/11 the other day, and noticed there was atleast one crash tender present at the pentagon. This struck me as odd since i have only ever seen crash tenders used at airports. Why would a crash tender be there? Also what is it that makes a crash tender like a Oshkosk Striker so different from a spartan,alf,pierce,etc rig? obviously they carry foam but why are they designed so different? Is it because aircraft fires can easily give off alot more heat if the jet fuel is ignited?