Offering my assistance.

[Spaloo]

I've never understood the rationale behind having paramedic trucks and EMT trucks - why don't they split 41 of those para crews to make 82 mixed crews meaning that every punter gets a paramedic?

los angeles county dept of health services, which oversees all EMS in the county, has a rule/protocol stating that ALS/paramedic units, whether they are squads, ambulances, engines, must have 2 paramedics on board in order to respond to emergency calls as ALS units, unless a special situation exists like a natural disaster or a medic goes home sick. Since then, County FD and some city FDs have created "Medic Assessment Engines" with only 1 medic, but mikesphotos will have to explain how they get away with that.

Plus, equipping each ambulance with ALS equipment costs alot more $$$.

[Renal]

los angeles county dept of health services, which oversees all EMS in the county, has a rule/protocol stating that ALS/paramedic units, whether they are squads, ambulances, engines, must have 2 paramedics on board in order to respond to emergency calls as ALS units

Very odd. Over here, an the equivalent would be a paramedic resource, that is, a car, bike, motorbike or even an ambo that has a paramedic on - hence, we could provide ~200 paramedic units at any one time rather than 100 (still appallingly low mind) meaning that we double the number of punters who can get paramedic care (not that you need that for itchy teeth).

And what ALS kit do you need? A few venflons, drugs, fluids and airways? They're not all that expensive when you consider the cost of the paramedic in the first place.

[MikesPhotos]

los angeles county dept of health services, which oversees all EMS in the county, has a rule/protocol stating that ALS/paramedic units, whether they are squads, ambulances, engines, must have 2 paramedics on board in order to respond to emergency calls as ALS units, unless a special situation exists like a natural disaster or a medic goes home sick. Since then, County FD and some city FDs have created "Medic Assessment Engines" with only 1 medic, but mikesphotos will have to explain how they get away with that.

Plus, equipping each ambulance with ALS equipment costs alot more $$$.

Spaloo, as usual is absolutely correct. Paramedics in this county and in much of this state work as a Paramedic Team consisting of two Paramedics to provide ALS level care to patients who need assistance beyond the scope of the standard Firefighter/EMT. The reason for the team is due to the protocols and directions regarding Base Hospital Contact in addition to Standing Protocols. In regards to Medic Assessment Engines and Light Forces, these units are staffed with either 1 or 2 paramedics and at least 1 EMT, have minimal drugs and equipment, and operate under Pre-Hospital Base Contact protocols and procedures. This allows for patients to be assessed for their needs of care ALS or BLS, allow for AMA (Against Medical Advice) form signatures (LAFD operating policy mandates that a paramedic must assess a patient before AMA can be filled out), and immediate life saving measures to be taken. For more information regarding assessment units in Los Angeles County, you can read the reference document (Ref. 416) here

For more information regarding ALS level care in Los Angeles County, I recommend reading up on the role of base hospital contact in Ref 300 as well as the minimal equipment lists at Ref 700 and specific field protocols at Ref 800

For LAFD specific EMS guidelines, you can read the LAFD Field manual here

Both the LAFD and LACoFD are committed to serving the citizens and ensuring a high level of ALS and BLS quality of service. Recently, along with other departments in California, we have include the usage of Lifepack 12 Lead EKGs in our ALS companies which has been found to be critical in the diagnosis and treatment of cardiac patients beyond.

The goal right now for the Los Angeles City Fire department, as stated previously in this thread, is to have at least 1 paramedic resource in every station, Assessment and full ALS. Here is the current EMS plan for the City of Los Angeles:

On April 27, 2008, 15 BLS fire companies will be upgraded to

Paramedic Assessment status while qualified Firefighter-

Paramedics assigned to the following 15 fire stations will be able

to rotate off the Paramedic Ambulance onto the newly upgraded

Paramedic Assessment fire company:

• Fire Stations 14, 15, 21, 26, 34 and 46 in Battalion 3

• Fire Stations 33, 57, 64, 65 and 66 in Battalion 13

• Fire Stations 60, 89 and 102 in Battalion 14

• Fire Station 94 in Battalion 18

The Engine at single-Engine fire stations will become an

Assessment Engine. The Light Force at Task Force fire stations

will become an Assessment Light Force.

Additional Firefighter-Paramedic positions will be created and

staffed starting April 27, 2008, at Fire Stations 15, 21, 34, 46, 57, 65

and 102 to provide rotation for qualified Firefighter-

Paramedics.

All Paramedic Assessment fire companies will

continue to be staffed with qualified Firefighter-Paramedics with

at least two years of LAFD paramedic assignment experience.

Members with less than two years of LAFD paramedic experience

will continue to be assigned to their current assignments and staff

Paramedic Rescue Ambulances.

Additional resources and Firefighter-Paramedic positions will be

requested in future budgets. Firefighters are encouraged to begin

considering a convenient time in the near future to attend

Paramedic School. It is a five-year goal that every fire station will

have a minimum of one Paramedic Assessment fire company and

one Paramedic Rescue Ambulance.

Mike

[Renal]

Mike

Cheers for the links, doesn't really explain the rationale, but nevermind.

[Newfoundking]

Now I'm not sure if I am right, but from my understanding, not all units have to be ALS, they can be different types of EMS, as far as I know. There is ALS, then MEdical response, and then Emergency Medical( in no particular order)

Hope this clears it up, and if it is different for LA, I'm sorry please correct me

[MikesPhotos]

Now I'm not sure if I am right, but from my understanding, not all units have to be ALS, they can be different types of EMS, as far as I know. There is ALS, then MEdical response, and then Emergency Medical( in no particular order)

Hope this clears it up, and if it is different for LA, I'm sorry please correct me

In the Southern California area you have 3 levels of medical training. The highest is the EMT-Paramedic level that can utilize a full range of drugs, cardiac tools, and establish a patent airway amongst other things. The next level down is the EMT-Basic which can utilize just a handful of drugs, such as oxygen.. yes.. .oxygen IS a drug! They are primarily trained to stabilize a non-critical patient, take vitals, and to assist the paramedics. All Firefighters are trained to this level. Below that is the First Responder, which is what all Police officers are trained as. They are taught basic first aid like put pressure on a bleeding wound, and how to use a sling and swathe. It's really band-aid level care at best. They are not taught how to stabilize a patient, how to deal with C-Spine issues, or anything beyond just stop the bleeding and try not to move the patient much.

Most ALS calls can be downgraded to BLS once a paramedic checks them out. For example a patient with an altered level of conciousness might be due to head trauma, medical complications, or any number of issues. Once assessed by a paramedic, they can determine if further ALS care is needed, or if two EMT's can transport the patient to the hospital instead, thereby freeing up the medics from having to stand and hold a wall up in the ER till a bed is free. Unfortunately, the EMS system in this area is greatly overtaxed with many units having to go "NAV (not available) Beds" and wait for up to 4 hrs at times with a patient in the hallway of an ER.

Mike

[C.F.D]

What bunker gear brand does LAFD buy? I'm curious, as almost every firefighters in LA wears them. Looks lightweight also...and old ( no offense, seen them since 1985s)

[MikesPhotos]

What bunker gear brand does LAFD buy? I'm curious, as almost every firefighters in LA wears them. Looks lightweight also...and old ( no offense, seen them since 1985s)

LAFD uses Morning Pride for turnout gear that meets specific LAFD specs like no zipper along the leg (long discussion can be found elsewhere on the net regarding the wearing of station boots with turnout gear and why they banned the zipper), and Transcon which is now Elbeco makes the Brush gear.

Also I don't know about old, I believe it was 2006 when most guys got new gear. It just gets used a lot.

[usmc123]

Mike I know that there is a patrol function for ambulances in the LA Mod, but is that realistic? Do Ambulances patrol the streets, I've always thought they just wait for a call.

[Spaloo]

Mike I know that there is a patrol function for ambulances in the LA Mod, but is that realistic? Do Ambulances patrol the streets, I've always thought they just wait for a call.

nope no ambulance patrols. Both county and city house their fire-based EMS (RA and squads) in the fire stations until the call arrives. The only exception being move-ups. If all available units of a certain type are tied up within an area (for example a mass casualty incident or major fire) then a unit from another part of the city (or county) will move into the area that's lacking that type of unit, but more than likely they'll move up to another station and not just "patrol" the area.

As for the privates that do 911 work, they're mostly posted on street corners and do what's called a "system status" movement to evenly distribute all their resources. They're more likely to be seen driving around, but it's still not really a patrol-type function.

[Guest Mav1701]

And it would be extremely expensive given current fuel prices

[MikesPhotos]

nope no ambulance patrols. Both county and city house their fire-based EMS (RA and squads) in the fire stations until the call arrives. The only exception being move-ups. If all available units of a certain type are tied up within an area (for example a mass casualty incident or major fire) then a unit from another part of the city (or county) will move into the area that's lacking that type of unit, but more than likely they'll move up to another station and not just "patrol" the area.

As for the privates that do 911 work, they're mostly posted on street corners and do what's called a "system status" movement to evenly distribute all their resources. They're more likely to be seen driving around, but it's still not really a patrol-type function.

Spaloo, as usual, is spot on. The only thing I'd add is that units can be dispatched to a call while en route from the hospital back to the station. After the patient is delivered and the vehicle is restocked or deconed as neccesary, the vehicle goes back into service and available for a call.

Mike

[Guest Mav1701]

Mike,

This discussion has arced over many months and through several topics, so its kind of hard to remember. Can you give us a short list of the types of apparatus that are housed throughout the various stations. You don't have to list all of the special things like bulldozers, trailers, boats, etc, just the "trucks" and engines. Descriptions would be nice too.. it'd make it easier to see what we should and shouldn't suggest.

I know:

Ambulance

Engine

Truck (Ladder)

Pumper (same as engine?)

Foam Tender (looks like ingame Water Tender)

USAR Squad

Hazmat Squad

Heavy Rescue (truck? squad?) IE: rescue 56, the crane truck

Brush trucks

EMS cars

Battalion vehicles

Air scrubbers/tenders

I used http://www.angelfire.com/la3/chucksfirepics1/index.html as a basis though that will of course be out of date (like Brush truck 109 - the hummer, which is retired right?)

Some questions this can help resolve:

I know engines have deck guns and hose connections, whats the difference in an LAFD pumper?

Anything that is like "Truck 10" is a ladder truck right? Do they carry hose/water and any rescue gear? (basically making them quads quints?

They're also usually paired with a pumper making a Light force right? Is it just a regular engine with only an engineer onboard?

And if there is also a engine company included its a Task Force, with a total of 10 personnel?

So since station nine has Engine 9, Truck 9, and Engine 209, is that 1 engine company and 1 light force company which make 1 task force?

LAFD has no HP/Snorkels or Aerial Water Towers? Do any/all the ladders have a monitor at the top?

So if the only squads are the Hazmat and USAR trucks, who carries the rescue gear?

I know its all been discussed before, but hopefully we can get it in a central location

[Ami89E1234]

hey, mike, what are the boxes on top of the engine and what are they used for? and what are the little red things on them?

[MikesPhotos]

Mike,

This discussion has arced over many months and through several topics, so its kind of hard to remember. Can you give us a short list of the types of apparatus that are housed throughout the various stations. You don't have to list all of the special things like bulldozers, trailers, boats, etc, just the "trucks" and engines. Descriptions would be nice too.. it'd make it easier to see what we should and shouldn't suggest.

I may, in the near future, post a simple primer on the LAFD apparatus. With the great city of Los Angeles being so large and constantly changing, the task is a daunting one. It is not your normal 5 station fire department with a handful of vehicles in the motor pool. I will see what I can do though, but be patient, it will not be a priority.

Some questions this can help resolve:

I know engines have deck guns and hose connections, whats the difference in an LAFD pumper?

Let me try and answer these now. A Fire engine is a Pumper. Just a different name for the same vehicle.

Anything that is like "Truck 10" is a ladder truck right? Do they carry hose/water and any rescue gear? (basically making them quads quints?

They're also usually paired with a pumper making a Light force right? Is it just a regular engine with only an engineer onboard?

And if there is also a engine company included its a Task Force, with a total of 10 personnel?

So since station nine has Engine 9, Truck 9, and Engine 209, is that 1 engine company and 1 light force company which make 1 task force?

Truck 10 would be a tiller aerial ladder truck. They do not carry any hose or water on the truck, they have no plumbing at all, nor a tank. They carry a complement of ground ladders, forcible entry tools, cribbing, extrication tools, and in certain areas they'll carry either over the side rescue or swift water rescue gear in conjunction with the Engine that is attached to them.

All trucks but 1 are in a Light force configuration. In the Light force configuration, the truck is staffed with a Capt II, Apparauts Operator, and 3 firefighters (one in the rear box as the tillerman). The 2-Car is staffed with an Engineer for a total of 6 men in the light force. Many of the Light forces are now paramedic assesment which allows the Paramedics to rotate off of the RA's and onto the trucks and engines as well as getting paramedic assement and treatment started quickly. Depending on the station, the gear is split between the engine and the truck so that the Light Force can function as either a truck company or an engine company on scene but they are never broken up.

Truck 9 is the only special truck in the city. They operate alone due to the area they work in having such a high incidence of calls. The area is known colloquially as Skid row and they have a high incidence of medical aids, rubbish fires, and other get-and-go calls. Because of that, Engine 9 and 209 are both fully staffed stand alone engines.

Besides that one station, the rest operate in the Task Force/Light force configuration. As you said, by adding a single engine resource to the Light force, you then have a task force. The 10 man task force is the core of the LAFD response matrix and can handle most incidents and allows for great flexibilty as either 2 engines or an engine and a truck company. A typical station is LAFD Fire Station 88 with Engine 88, Light Force 88, RA 88, and RA888.

LAFD has no HP/Snorkels or Aerial Water Towers? Do any/all the ladders have a monitor at the top?

No snorkels since the bad accident in 1970 that killed Fireman Collier. And no, none of the trucks are pre-plumbed. They do carry a monitor along the side.

So if the only squads are the Hazmat and USAR trucks, who carries the rescue gear?

Depends what gear you are referring to. More then likely, it's the Light force. The HAZMAT Squad just carries hazardous materials incident gear and the USAR rigs are like beefed up trucks without the ladders. They carry confined space rescue gear, trench rescue, and collapse shoring. They are bassically a rolling tool box and lumber yard. They also carry forcible entry and extrication gear which is why they'll respond to fires and vehicle accidents.

hey, mike, what are the boxes on top of the engine and what are they used for? and what are the little red things on them?

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn147/S...r/LAFDE1n-1.jpg

Air conditioning for the cab. The red lights are either LED or Halogen emergency warning light flashers.

All of the side flashers in that style flash in a either very slow, boring, single flash, or sometimes a double flash.

[Guest Mav1701]

Excellent, thanks Mike

As far as rescue gear I was talking about the items you might find in a heavy rescue truck in other areas, beyond what a typical engine might be able to carry. Like the special saws, jacks and airbags, water and climbing gear and so on. In my head, it seemed like there was a gap between what the USAR is utilized for and what the light forces are equipped to handle, but from your descriptions I can see there isn't.

Thanks again

[Ami89E1234]

thanks mike

[AgentSmith6]

Hey, this is kind of off topic, but what does LAFD usually send to a mva? I'm not an expert on CA firefignting (that's why Mike's here) but does a USAR squad respond to every MVA with entrapment?

[Guest Pyroman93]

Hey, this is kind of off topic, but what does LAFD usually send to a mva? I'm not an expert on CA firefignting (that's why Mike's here) but does a USAR squad respond to every MVA with entrapment?

not sure about LA, but where im from its 2 engines , a truck (if no truck is available its replaced with a 3rd engine) and a battalion chief.

and of course medics, wither its AMR or the city medics we have in 2 areas.

im assuming that LA is something similar.

[MikesPhotos]

Hey, this is kind of off topic, but what does LAFD usually send to a mva? I'm not an expert on CA firefignting (that's why Mike's here) but does a USAR squad respond to every MVA with entrapment?

not sure about LA, but where im from its 2 engines , a truck (if no truck is available its replaced with a 3rd engine) and a battalion chief.

and of course medics, wither its AMR or the city medics we have in 2 areas.

im assuming that LA is something similar.

When an entrapment is involved, the call is upgraded to a Physical Rescue Assignment from a standard Traffic Accident. Standard response will be 4 fire companies with not less then 1 Task Force, Heavy Rescue 56 if available, an ALS RA or more depending on number of patients, EMS Capt. and Battalion Chief. Now, because of the way the LAFD system is set up, it's 4 fire companies could become 1 Task Force and 2 additional engines, or 2 TFs (2 Engines and 2 Light Forces with one Light Force acting as the 3rd engine) depending on who is available at the time. USAR rigs will respond if requested and are usually added immediately if the incident is in their first in, or if they are closer then the nearest Light Force. They will also respond to door pops on minor TAs.

Many times you'll hear E78 and RA78 respond to the traffic or LF102 and RA102 respond to the traffic, and when they get on scene the Captain will request it be upgraded to a physical rescue and respond USAR, which will send the additional units necessary to fill it out.

USARs are a very specialized rig and respond mostly on special assignments like vehicle over the side, structure fires as part of the RIC usually, trench/confined space rescues, and calls where severe building damage has occurred. Staffing on them is just 1 AO and 1 Captain. When a USAR incident occurs, they'll respond as part of a USAR task force with usually the stations Light force providing the additional specially trained manpower.

Also, only the Light Forces and USAR rigs carry extrication gear, bags, and cribbing.

Mike

[Madman]

I searched on these forums and on your site Mike, but I couldn't find any info on the Arson Investigators and how they arrive on scene. Do they drive SUV's like the battalion chiefs or are they just basic cars?

Thanks for any info.

[MikesPhotos]

I searched on these forums and on your site Mike, but I couldn't find any info on the Arson Investigators and how they arrive on scene. Do they drive SUV's like the battalion chiefs or are they just basic cars?

Thanks for any info.

Just basic cars. Typically it's an unmarked crown vic, or one with just the city logo on the doors with a single steady burn red light in the grille or rear view mirror and a flashing red/amber light on the rear deck.

Here's one from the Topanga fire back in 2005

[Madman]

Thanks Mike.

I was just thinking they might add another level into the game if an arson unit was added, (I try to role play in the game). I know they would serve zero functional purpose, but they could be sent on scene after an arson and you would be forced to deal with the traffic restrictions imposed.

Do any engines or other apparatus stay on scene during an arson investigation for any hot spots/general safety? If so, that would be something you'd be forced to contend with during a post fire investigation in the game.

[MikesPhotos]

Thanks Mike.

I was just thinking they might add another level into the game if an arson unit was added, (I try to role play in the game). I know they would serve zero functional purpose, but they could be sent on scene after an arson and you would be forced to deal with the traffic restrictions imposed.

Do any engines or other apparatus stay on scene during an arson investigation for any hot spots/general safety? If so, that would be something you'd be forced to contend with during a post fire investigation in the game.

It depends on the circumstances. Usually Arson investigators arrive quite some time after the incident began and the IC completes most of the preliminary paperwork and the investigator will come, take pictures, and poke around a bit during the final overhaul or after. If there are extremely suspicious circumstances, the IC company might stay longer or delay overhaul for the investigators to get their first. If an arsonist is caught on scene, be it a child with fireworks or an adult setting it intentionally, PD will make the arrest and detain the suspect for the arson investigators. PD will also transport to the local police station as well.

For an incident like the one in game, because the suspect is caught and arrested, there is minimal investigation compared to one where everything is unknown. The majority of the initial investigation would be handled long before the fire companies were even done packing their gear during something like that.

I'll be the first to say that a non-functional unit for a 10 second role-playing effect is not something high on anyones to-do list. If you'd like to mimic it for yourself, retexture a chief to a red helmet and see this photoset for what the jacket looks like. You'll also see a white chevy car with LAFD markings that was probably the staff car they were using.

Mike

[Madman]

I definitely appreciate your opinion Mike, thanks for the reply. I hear what you are saying about the extremely limited role that a unit of that type would play. I guess I'm just trying to think about ways to make the freeplay gameplay even more realistic.