Itchboy's Model Works

[Dyson]

Since my name has been thrown into this mix yet again I will go ahead and state my peace on this issue and hopefully it'll end here with it.

 

What I have noticed is that much of the tension that occurs here as of recent has came in the form of persons from the other english site roaming their way here with the explicit purposes of stirring the pot so to speak.  I know this because sadly for me, I've had to address it several times in recent weeks, which ultimately is not beneficial to the community and any potential "healing" that can take place.  Perhaps if people exercised the concept of "can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" things would be more amicable. For your part dyson, you are not one of those that seems to intend to stir the pot, others on the other hand have done just that in the process. People have their own agendas and I can tell you from long experience, many of them do not share the well-being of the community in mind.

 

To me with our issues that we encountered, the issues could have been addressed in a much more discreet manner (which would have suited everyone in the end I believe), unfortunately you made choices to make the issue quite public which propagated much of the tensions that are currently going on in this community.  While I cannot say you were aware of what Raf did do or did not do, he or someone else did ultimately take from my mod without permission and did so in a deceptive manner at best. I can say from what I was shown that it was in fact not a minor issue from my view, there were many models directly taken from my mod and altered to attempt to conceal where they originated, to me that is a pretty big deal considering the time I did put into those projects.  That being said, had we not had a previous misunderstanding which Hoppah addressed on my behalf stating very clearly and in concise terms that the content had to be removed it probably would not have been such a big deal to me either.  

 

Unfortunately, Hoopah did make it clear that the content from my NYC mod would have to be removed and Raf stated it would be removed per the request, but failed to actually follow through on his word does make what he did in fact a theft, not a misunderstanding.  Your culpability in the whole scenario as to how much you were aware of, as well as any potential part you had in the issues was debatable at best, especially considering that you yourself do not model, so chances are you never saw the wireframes to see they were in fact carbon copies of mine.  As such the only reason you had to have involvement was because of the fact you are the steward of those mods, which unfortunately makes you accountable to rectifying the situation we had.  You were not banned, nor actually warned as a result of any of this, nor should you have been given that there is no definitive tie to you and being directly responsible for the theft of that content.  Ultimately Raf should have owned up to that issue, it was taken on his good faith and his word that he resolved the problems the previous go-round we had, which he ultimately did not actually follow through on in the least.  That is what ultimately offended me more than anything, had it have been the first time we had any issues, it would not have bothered me as badly, but having the same issue crop up again when Raf assured it would be addressed was quite offensive and to be made into a villain when I in fact wronged in the first place was totally insane to me.  Perhaps you were a victim as well dyson, but that would be something to take up with Raf regarding, since he is the one who quite honestly lied to me as much as you.

 

I gave a fairly simple resolution to you, of which you can partake on either one of them to consider our situation resolved. The first being to remove all the offending content that was not from the LA mod but in fact came from the NYC mod, or alternatively to credit the materials from the NYC mod separately and with the caveat to contact me for permission to use it. If either of those steps are taken we would be perfectly fine and life would go on for my part in the crediting nightmare.  The content from LA I always let be out there just for ease of the fact that Hoop made the LA mod open to use by anyone, so that content is allowed to be used, NYC I did not make it free to use but simply required asking permission from me to use it, which most the time I permit.

 

Reskin mods do have their place in this community, they work as a great stop-gap between the new content created, as that takes a ton of time to do, especially when you have your life outside of this community to take into account.  Most of us have to work or goto school, on top of other personal obligations which limit our modding-time quite a bit.  Reskins work great to fill those voids between such steps forward in the format of new content, as well as giving new modders a venue to try to wade into the modding process.  To me though I have to be honest in that I miss the days when such reskin mods were classified as "sub-mods" of the original modification which they largely worked off of, since back then it was much clearer how much someone was actually responsible for vs how much was from the original people.  The problems we've had alot lately ultimately result from lax crediting processes by a good number of the modders in general, thus making it much harder for the reskinners to have proper accounting of the credits and who did what.

 

As an original content creator I can honestly say that for the most part what I find offensive more than anything is how people on both sides seem iron-willed to create the extremes of both sides of this argument instead of trying to see one another's perspectives and trying to find some understanding and more importantly respect for one another.  Fact is, the reskinners who wish to use the content out there would not have new content without the original guys taking the time to make it in the first place, the game would get very stale very fast as a result.  No matter how many times you respray a model, if it's unchanged it's still the exact same model as the one you've already seen countless times before.  To follow the wishes of these guys who are taking the time to make such content that you have access to because they do invest that time.  For some it's as simple as crediting them, for others they have more strict caveats, but if you want to release it for the public, you really should be following whatever these people deem.  If you don't want to have to worry about such hassles, the catch is that you'd do your project in private and could not distribute it... It's really that simple.

 

That being said though, original creators have to be willing to give a little bit in letting people use their stuff to start out.  We all started somewhere, and for most it was modifying other's works to learn the ropes, be it in this game or another game for most of us it's how we learned as well.  So there has to be some give to let people use the stuff to help them start their modding futures, that is one thing that several years ago made it quite trying to start out in modding this game.  A few years ago you did not have the luxury of so much content to source to kitbash together to make your own reskin mod, back then there was far less content and most of it was totally unavailable.  Now you have it out there with for the most part reasonable considerations to the original authors required to use them.  Please if you want to use other's stuff, including mine, take the time to credit them, and if they don't explicitly say "feel free to use it" ask them if you can use it in a project you intend to release.  It's a common courtesy and something quite honestly that has been forgotten and taken advantage of far too often in recent times.

 

Perhaps just perhaps if people were a little less extreme a bit more understanding of everyone things would calm down, but as I've said before many out there have their own vendettas and agendas they feel the need to pursue and are using such a time as this to their full exploitation.  What is really sad is that we as a community cannot see this conduct and clip it out.  If the community wants to be a community, healing starts from within, learn to be more understanding and ultimately more respectful, that goes for everyone out there... If everyone wants to be egotistical and selfish, then there is no point in calling it a community at all, Original creators need to be willing to help new guys start out, reskinners/new guys need to be willing to respect the guys  who make the content they themselves want to use.. If we can manage to get there perhaps the whole credit/permissions bs will calm down, if people continue to be unwilling to give and just want to take, then extremism will persist.

 

In regards to NYCERU copyright comments (off topic)

I completely agree with everything you've said, I do have to say that I don't agree with the deception you've suggested, yeah we used your stuff, I've held my hands up to that, I wasn't aware, my bad, I've already been speaking to you about resolving it and I really was hoping to just speak to you about it privately but itchboy has taken the opportunity to bring it up after I've been talking about only healing the community. So I didn't really want to speak about it, but I would hope that you'd realise, we've used a lot of stuff, from models to scripts from various sources and credited all of them, does it not strike you as odd that we would choose just you, the author of the Sierra (which I have since spoken to and he has given us permission) and a model from turbosquid, to "rip off". I understand the run in before and as I've explained this was solely to do with the tow trucks and was an understanding between ourselves and hoppah that was either misunderstood or just fell through. I really, really, really want to put all this behind us, like you say I had no knowledge of the usage of your stuff, raf is the modeler, but this boils down to bad communication within the team, that's our fault, I apologise again. But to think we would steal them, actively try and claim them as our own knowing that it'd be very easy to unravel is beyond me, but some people would have me down as a thief and that's up to them. I've spent the past month rectifying these issues best I can, not to just release in future, but to apologise to people we may have offended. But I need the community to know this isn't stealing, I mean mikey has been credited in every readme we've ever put out, sure back then you didn't need to specify what we were crediting authors for, but I knew that much of our mod relied heavily on his work, he's done so much for the community and I'm really grateful for that.

 

In terms of the community, I literally posted trying to help resolve this issue before it becomes an even bigger one. People seem to think its an us vs them kinda of deal, its really not. This community, all forums, all mods, only survives if we co-exist. We all break copyright, every single one of us, whether you're using models from another game, using logos of departments or even just car logos, it's all a violation. The only reason this game survived is because it was so open source, coupled with a community that provided for each other. This means yeah you'll get the basic reskin mod, but those mods can rise up into bigger things, but if you cull all of these attempts before anyone even had a chance, then that's when the community goes into decline. Less mods means less activity, less new things being added to the community collective. If anyone goes into this community with an ego, wanting, demanding that they be known for how good they are then thats when we have this issue. 

 

I feel I'm fighting a losing battle to keep the community I've spent a long time on in tact. There's a strong divide between those that can and those that can't and when you take away the nurturing element from this community it will just wither and die. 

[MikeyPI]

In regards to NYCERU copyright comments (off topic)

I completely agree with everything you've said, I do have to say that I don't agree with the deception you've suggested, yeah we used your stuff, I've held my hands up to that, I wasn't aware, my bad, I've already been speaking to you about resolving it and I really was hoping to just speak to you about it privately but itchboy has taken the opportunity to bring it up after I've been talking about only healing the community. So I didn't really want to speak about it, but I would hope that you'd realise, we've used a lot of stuff, from models to scripts from various sources and credited all of them, does it not strike you as odd that we would choose just you, the author of the Sierra (which I have since spoken to and he has given us permission) and a model from turbosquid, to "rip off". I understand the run in before and as I've explained this was solely to do with the tow trucks and was an understanding between ourselves and hoppah that was either misunderstood or just fell through. I really, really, really want to put all this behind us, like you say I had no knowledge of the usage of your stuff, raf is the modeler, but this boils down to bad communication within the team, that's our fault, I apologise again. But to think we would steal them, actively try and claim them as our own knowing that it'd be very easy to unravel is beyond me, but some people would have me down as a thief and that's up to them. I've spent the past month rectifying these issues best I can, not to just release in future, but to apologise to people we may have offended. But I need the community to know this isn't stealing, I mean mikey has been credited in every readme we've ever put out, sure back then you didn't need to specify what we were crediting authors for, but I knew that much of our mod relied heavily on his work, he's done so much for the community and I'm really grateful for that.

 

In terms of the community, I literally posted trying to help resolve this issue before it becomes an even bigger one. People seem to think its an us vs them kinda of deal, its really not. This community, all forums, all mods, only survives if we co-exist. We all break copyright, every single one of us, whether you're using models from another game, using logos of departments or even just car logos, it's all a violation. The only reason this game survived is because it was so open source, coupled with a community that provided for each other. This means yeah you'll get the basic reskin mod, but those mods can rise up into bigger things, but if you cull all of these attempts before anyone even had a chance, then that's when the community goes into decline. Less mods means less activity, less new things being added to the community collective. If anyone goes into this community with an ego, wanting, demanding that they be known for how good they are then thats when we have this issue. 

 

I feel I'm fighting a losing battle to keep the community I've spent a long time on in tact. There's a strong divide between those that can and those that can't and when you take away the nurturing element from this community it will just wither and die. 

In regards to the NYCERU

I never accused you of the deception, what I stated is a point-of-fact, when the previous issue occured Raf responded stating that it would be resolved and all the offending content would be removed, he knew well because Hoop stated clearly that all the content from NYC was to be removed.  He himself opted to not do this, which was where the deception part comes into play, that is where he himself ripped me off.  I took it on good faith, given his reputation that he would indeed resolve the situation being that my understanding at that time was that it was a misunderstanding.  When he failed to follow through with his own word to remove the offending content, that crossed the line to being intentional on his part.  As I said previously, you were perhaps just as much a victim as I was in that regard, I appreciate your apology regarding it, ultimately your part in it is to resolve the issue in the manner which we've discussed already in one of the two options I've granted to you, whichever way you want to go about it is ultimately up to you.  Being that you're the steward of sorts of those mods, you unfortunately have to clean up his mess as it were.  It sucks for you as much as me, but ultimately had he not played that game back then, it would have never have came back around in a new issue which was brought to the staff's attention, for your part in it I'm sorry that you have to address his mistakes, but part of being a community is resolving differences that may exist.  Ultimately this latest round can be traced back to Raf not following through on his word with the first incident, which unfortunately victimized both of us in the process.  You have had the best of intentions, but I'm sure you can see where the rub lies in it, when he went back on his word he crossed the line where he shouldnt have, and unfortunately since you're the active party for those mods you're stuck footing the bill to fix what he did.

 

As in regards to the community, as I stated myself, it is not that people seem to think it's an us vs them kind of deal.  Many of the players roaming about right now have their own vendettas and agendas against one person or group or another and want to exploit the tensions and situation going down to their own benefit.  It's working quite well as you can tell by the fact we've gotta keep going down these very same roads over and over again instead of people stating their peace and moving on.  We all do not hold copyrights on any of the assets, but what the original authors do have is Intellectual Property protection, as they are artistic works as such.  Love it, or leave it, the original people have to be respected in order for the community to co-exist.  Without new guys there will be no future, but without the guys making new content the old content recycled 3,000 times will in a matter of time get stale, just remember when the LA mod went free-to-use how great it was, and unfortunately how fast people got tired of the LA mod maps.  That is the fate that awaits if the community does not co-exist in a format which makes people who do take their time to make new things feel appreciated and respected.  

 

Who would want to create content for other's to abuse after all?  We all as modders do this for one because we enjoy doing the stuff, but we also do it for the recognition of the community in the form of them enjoying our works.  Part of that recognition has to include the respect and appreciation for the time/effort invested, even you have to admit you've put a great deal of time into your efforts, even if it was not modeling, even something like map making takes a great deal of time, but nobody in their right mind will be inclined to do such things if they know others will not only take their stuff, but in some instances claim it as their own.

 

The game it's self was easy to modify, which helped it's longevity, but people forget without people making the new scripts, functions, maps, models, that open nature of the game would get stale very fast.  That's the point I try to stress to people, while you and even I may disagree with some people who put their time into creating things, I still feel that it is only right to respect that they did put that time into it, and if they have caveats on how or when it should be used, then I should respect them, even if I don't agree with it.  As I've said before nobody has to release their works, that goes for original creators as well as reskinners, lately though there is a serious sense of entitlement and plenty of ego going around which is why we are where we are.

 

As I've said with the reskin mods, everyone has to start somewhere, but if you have basic reskin modders stomping on those who made the bases, or those who are making things, that will give those people no incentive to continue to provide, thus meaning nothing new added to the mix.  Which is really what keeps this game series going, without new features/maps/models this game gets quite repetitive and stale fast.  Where we are at now as a community is an impasse.  The original creators want to have the respect for their content and their conditions to use it, as it was previously in the community, while the reskinners want to be able to use anything and everything however they please, unless the community comes to a consensus on what is reasonable to end this impasse, it won't end.  Truth is, the number of people who've been outright culled is actually quite small, most of those parties were not as simple as they failed to credit (accidental) but the manner in which they responded to the issues, as I said before while I do not agree with some modders in how they handle issues that arise, it is ultimately their choices as it is their content as to what they wish to do in regards to it.  To undermine them and dismiss them because people want more content faster means you'll get more faster, but longevity will decline just as fast as nobody will work to improve the game further knowing that their work will not be respected as such.

 

We have these issues not for any simple reason as an ego, it's a nice line I'll give you that, but it's not really valid to most of the parties I've encountered on the orginal-content end.  What was a rude awakening to many of them in this affair is how few feel anymore that they deserve to have their wishes respected (whatever they may be).  That for me myself is offensive, it has nothing to do with my "ego" what so ever, but for the fact of how much time I did invest into what I've worked on, to know that as a community it is ok for others to just do with that effort what they will just for the sake of more content being available to them, speaks of the entitlement from that side and total disregard for my time invested.  It's quite disrespectful if that is how the community honestly feels, and when people dismiss my grievances in regard to my content that I put my effort into, it marginalizes my efforts and certainly makes me less inclined to give to this community.  There was a time this community was grateful for the effort put into new things, it seems as of late they just want it fast, however it comes to be in their hands isnt their concern, where they used to want people to "do it right"

 

More mods don't necessarily equate to more new things, repaint a vic 100 times it's still the same vic underneath.  It's the guys who are willing to take the time to make that new suburban or that new lightbar, or a whole new map or scripts that makes new things, the reskin mods have a great starting-point position and ultimately help those individuals learn, while also occupying the community while the new things are created, but without the balance and recognition for the time it takes and the effort those people put into those new things, they won't waste their time.  Sure, some of those reskin modders may grow to do new things, but then when the shoe is on the other foot and they're in the position of those that came before them, they'll see for themselves and suffer the same fate as those who went before them.

 

The only way this community will reconcile is to stop treating everything as a battle.  Realize that the original guys want the recognition and appreciation for their time/effort put into their works. how do they want that? For their wishes when it comes to their content to be respected, that means asking to use it if you want to release it to the public and crediting them... If you don't wanna go through that process then your mod should be kept private and not to be distributed if it's using their works.  The new guys that want to learn and be nurtured into learning the ropes, part of that is to respect the other side's wishes when it comes to their content, and you're less likely to have those guys being stand-offish with you. Don't demand that they give you what you want, you're not entitled to it and try to respect their time they've put into it so that you could have it available to use.  The sad truth is if people communicated more instead of showing total disregard for one another, there would be way less conflict than there is.  Most people don't want to give one another the time of day, which makes things escalate instead of de-escalate.

[poole3003]

If you making something and don't want people to use it or see it then why post about it in a forum used by a lot of people and brag and boast about it and if you don't want people to use it then don't give it them to use that's my opinion but j don't care what people argue over its silly and babyish that people are moaning about things for a game my mod yes is in progress but hey I'm not moaning about using things like I said u make and don't want it in things don't make them and post it here keep it to your self

[askjeeves]

Back to the original topic. New updates look good Itchboy, effort is showing through as always. Keep it up.

 

Whether or not you change your mind is irrelevant, your hard work is still nice to look at.

[FInn Rescue 12]

Ok enough of this petty crap it is summer time.  Go enjoy, recharge your batteries come back with a new out look and game face. Let this blow over.  To the administrators set new guideline so it will not happen in the future to members hard work.  It is simple if you put it on the forum for people to use or share, people are going to change it. There is to much temptation not to change one's work.  

 

Yes there should be a high degree of permission in a perfect world maybe lol!   I am sorry if this does offend any body this is only my opinion.  I also have put a lot of hard work into my Boston sub based on the LA mod from Hoppah and other members work.  I was upset over this but I forgot this is all about sharing and by the way we are all guilty of copy right violations.  BPD and NYPD LAPD excreta, did not give us permission to use there logo, They are all protected by copy right laws so long as we are not making a profit I do not think they will come after us.  

 

The one thing that dose bug me the most is members starting there own website for gaming teams excreta. If look at them they have advertisements on there page my guess is to help supplement page or other. The problem is it is other peoples work and that is a big no no! With that said ever body enjoy there summer later Finn out.          

[MikeyPI]

@ flynn that's kinda what we've been trying to do which has been an uphill battle from many users out there because we're enacting guidelines to try to prevent future problems.  Existing content has to be "grandfathered" in because let's face it, it isnt fair for someone who is gone to get in trouble for something that when they existed was not a problem.  As with anything when something becomes problematic, it has to be addressed, we're trying here but many of the community are making things more difficult than it has to be.

 

In a perfect world there would be some understanding and people would take the time to just sort out the permissions and credits, which takes way less time than making the content yourself, especially in a game such as this one where it's just so much you gotta have to make a proper mod.  Working together is very much a necessity with this game because of the vast quantity required, but alotta people have a free-for-all mentality going on and that's going to offend people in the process.  The community is about sharing but also appreciation, I think alotta the original people feel that their time/effort is not appreciated but more or less expected right now, and people with the extreme desire to do whatever they want is what bothers most of them.  It isnt that most don't wanna share and collaborate, but that they want some respect for their efforts taken in the form of permissions and appropriate credits.   As I said the copyright term is used in a broad stroke, but what exists is intellectual property because these are artistic works, no different than a painting or a sculpture would be considered under.  That being said, you are correct that the copyrighted authors of the likenesses that are replicated generally do not mind if you're not profiting off of their content.

 

That part of it seriously bothers me as well to be honest, if others are responsible for the bulk of your content, it certainly is unfair for you to profit off of their work, that is why I'm against the whole donations and ad revenues that many people are starting to get the idea of using too....  If I provide something for free to you, there is no ethical reason you should be attempting to profit from my effort.  If I'm giving it for free, you can either do the same or make it yourself if you want to profit from it.

 

Hopefully people can stop trying to make this issue so insanely extreme and calm down, get a bit more flexible on both sides of the extremes and find the middle ground again.  If everyone wants to keep being stupidly extreme about all of this nonsense then the rift will remain and nothing will change.  I for one am tired of going down this road time and time again and would like to move off of it.  I have far better things to do with my time than having to re-visit an issue that for the most part is pretty straightforward to understand and accept. 

 

For me personally, I really love to make the models, it's the part that I enjoy very much.  Pretty much the reason I still do what I do is for that reason.  I don't enjoy the way things are at this moment, and how things are playing out, I'd rather not have to worry about all this stuff and get to focus more of my time on the part I actually enjoy.

[itchboy]

Not a car, but might be useful. A pair of fire alarms for those who have the script in their mods.

And noneya better start asking me for requests cuz I aint doing none.

[Corsair]

What is that for?

[itchboy]

What is that for?

Fire alarm script. If you know how to install it into your mod.

[lapdlafd]

What about some American Jeep

[itchboy]

What about some American Jeep

IIRC Blackwood County mod had a Jeep Wrangler. And didn't I say no requests?

[Ace612]

IIRC Blackwood County mod had a Jeep Wrangler. And didn't I say no requests?

Wrangler is in original game. Also there is Cherokee in LA Mod

[CFDDIVE11]

Very nice

[itchboy]

My cheap UV mapping tutorial. Its still incomplete, but it does show my method of UV mapping. This tutorial assumes you already know the basics such as selecting objects, deselecting them, the 5 editing levels, and you need to have Zm2 obviously.

http://imgur.com/a/yqbAq

 

It also assumes you have a preset template for UV mapping to. I will be adding more images to template making. Note that the basics are available here:

www.zmodeler2.com/docs/program/lessons/basics/contents.html

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbIhUaD3P-4

http://forum.emergency-planet.com/tutorials/article/4-zmodeler-2-3d-modeling/

[itchboy]

Its been a while.

Freightlner FL70 model by Voodoo_Operator, heavilly edited by me. Rear truck box and misc parts by me. Dodge Charger by me as well. About time I did a civilian version of that car.

 

Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD model by me.

[EmC-Unit]

Its been a while.

 

Freightlner FL70 model by Voodoo_Operator, heavilly edited by me. Rear truck box and misc parts by me. Dodge Charger by me as well. About time I did a civilian version of that car.

 

 

Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD model by me.

 

[Mindcat]

Beautiful:)

[itchboy]

Whelen Justice Lightbar. 56 50 inches length.

[Soldjaboy]

nice lightbar

[itchboy]

nice lightbar

Thanks. I appreciate the feedback.

[freakinfuzzball]

Whelen Justice Lightbar. 56 inches length.

We've got this exact bar on our new wildland engines, looks spot on!

[sgtmatt325]

Very Nice

[LBFDEngine11]

very amazing Itchboy 

[itchboy]

Just a correction, this is actually a 50 inch lightbar, not 56 as previously posted.

[C.F.D]

So is the pack that contains civilian vehicles no longer available for public download ?