[RELEASED] Brooklyn "Borough of Fire" (BOF) Modification

[Newfoundking]

Please note this mod was closed and is still under investigation

[Dyson]

To clarify a lot of things I just wanted to publicly share what has happened in the past couple of days to avoid any confusion. 48 Hours ago we received a notication from NFK making us aware that an anonymous user has reported copyright violations on a large number of our models, skins and files. We spoke in depth about the allegations and began providing evidence (such as the detailed credit list) to support what we were saying.

 

The allegations claimed that we had knowingly stolen a large number of files from various mods, which for the most part we were able to quickly dismiss but this required a lot of proof and discussion. After this and getting in contact with Rafael we found that we had indeed used 3 models from the NYC mod, 2 of which were no longer in the mod, but regardless they had been used. This is a throw back to the days where this mod began, as a submod, using LA engines edited to be FDNY and whatever we could get together to make a mod. These were very early days in our modding careers, but it led on to several mods which have seen us deliver constant upgrades to our models and reworking our game.

 

With the credit threshold requiring a readme crediting all users at this point (not to specific vehicles, just general credit) we had always credited Hoppah and Mikey as their mods had both inspired and acted as a base for our work. Since this time (4 years ago) we had obviously purged all models used from other sources (besides Nnico and itchboy) as we obviously wanted the mod to be a submod.

 

I was not aware that our Ford ESU, that had survived from the submod right up to Manhattan Mod v3, featured parts of Mikey's ESU truck, which regardless of crediting him anyway we had not intended to use, I had been reworking the model with itchboy but was completely unaware it was still based on this model. After being made aware of it by NFK we immediately accepted that we had to remove it and would do so. But this was the only infringement, which we had, technically been showing credit for in readmes anyway.

 

So to summarise..

 

Yes we were in the wrong, however minor this is. We did not intend to breach any copyright and over the course of 4 years we lost track of a few things. But after a very very in-depth inspection into our stuff, this was the only violation and was a very minor one, we hadn't simply reskinned something and called it our own.

 

Due to the reaction of certain members this had been made into a way bigger deal than it in the end turned out to be, we've been made out to be full on thiefs just taking from everywhere and ruining people's experience. But to that I'd just say this is a game, we made and honest, very small, mistake. I just hope anyone with any sense can see through some of the name calling going on here.

 

The mod will continue but due to the current shape of the community we will be taking our work elsewhere, we'll keep any releases posted into this thread.

[Guest]

I dont blame you Dyson it was a simple mistake anyone could of made it was blown up to something way bigger then it needed to be. The simpler approach would of been for the mods/admins to private message you and resolve it from there.

[Lisa Rose]

wow.............. this is getting way out of hand.

[BastiaandeVries]

Why does it sounds like that mister Newfoundking thinks he controlls internet???

 

One word

 

LOL

 

Really? Crying childeren

[EMSJenna]

So if I'm reading correctly, you're still releasing the update here? Or just on the Man/Brky Mod Facebook page?

[Newfoundking]

I dont blame you Dyson it was a simple mistake anyone could of made it was blown up to something way bigger then it needed to be. The simpler approach would of been for the mods/admins to private message you and resolve it from there.

 

We actually did. I messaged him when I received the report. As I do with every report of copyright violation (with the exception of open shut cases) I wanted to resolve this the same as everyone else. He was the active mod head, so I contacted him, as the mod was his. To rectify the issues brought to our attention, we were looking for a credit list of who did what, to see if they were indeed crediting people who created the original models, and if that wasn't the case, then to resolve it by obtaining the appropriate credits and permissions to use the models. I didn't put any of this in public, in fact, it only became public by Dyson's choosing, that's when I started posting everything. There were three initial problems I came forward with, as that was simpler than a list of every reported violation, and I figured I'd be able to work that way, but it appears that there is a lot of one sidedness to all of this. There were reports that many models looked very similar to MikeyPI's models, but also other models available elsewhere online. I simply presented MikeyPI's first, as they were the easiest to discuss, as everyone involved was active on here, so I could ask if Mikey knew about it, or download them and review them easier. That's fine. When the credit list was presented publicly, I received a couple messages from others (note not MikeyPI) about several models that looked similar to XYZ but were not credited as such. At that time I contacted Dyson again, basically saying the credits are not complete, and they need to be fixed, they are obviously these models. 

 

I would have been perfectly fine with "We're going to obtain permission for that which we do not have, and provide credits for that which we have not credited." It didn't need to be a big issue. 

 

Also: Since several people have messaged me about the onesidedness of this investigation, I would like to clarify:

The models in question that were created by a member of this staff, MikeyPI, meant that MikeyPI was excluded from all discussion, other than simple questions about if he provided them, or knew about it. He was not a member of the investigation. The Investigation was run through me because I received the report, and RandomPerson139 and Hoppah were in on it as well. 

 

Why does it sounds like that mister Newfoundking thinks he controlls internet???

 

One word

 

LOL

 

Really? Crying childeren

First of all, LOL isn't a word, it's an acronym, secondly, you're new here, so I'll explain how it works. There's rules on this site, that EVERYONE must follow. Then there's a staff that makes them follow these rules. If you don't follow them, we resolve it, and sometimes it's a little investigation to go along with it. I don't think I control the internet, but I do have a major say over the website here, and how the community gets to behave. 

 

 

Finally, I'll have everyone know, because there seems to be a public lynch mob ready for the staff here, we did not issue any warnings or suspensions, because Dyson and his team agreed to comply, and this was a relatively minor issue. If it didn't get publicly posted to rally a cause against us, then it never would've seen the light of day. 

 

Everyone needs to step off, and stop trying to villainize the staff. We run a site that you guys enjoy. Maybe ask why we do something before you start a lynch mob next time? 

[BGM17]

It seems like in my OPINION the modding community is somewhat held back by the requirements for permissions etc, there is hundreds of excellent mods out there that will remain private and away from public consumption due to individuals being uptight as hell about there work. They work hard and that's appreciated, but what do they really gain from keeping there stuff to themselves? Is it an ego thing or what?

 

The Manhattan mod team have always been pretty cool about the free use of there scripts and models, i'm not a fan of american mods, but certainly in my experiance the resources they provided in terms of scripts have greatly advanced the quality of work produced by the community, imagine if every mod team was like that? What standard of mod would we be getting? I'd bet it'd be significantly higher. 

Just an opinion, seeings as the topic has been openly discussed.

[Newfoundking]

The problem isn't so much as people holding things in, as people using them without credits and permission. The big problem that I've heard from many content creators, is that other people will take a model, which takes many hours of work to do, slap a skin and a new flashier light job on it (just a reskin, not a new UV) and call it their work, while only spending an hour or two tops. It's disheartening to see someone else take your work as their own and show it off as such. More over than that, people aren't even trying to learn anymore, when they can create a full reskin mod, as has been the case for many many mods currently released. Not a single original work in there, just a new skin on everything. That's where the copyright push came. Content creators said they didn't want their work to be reskinned effortlessly and tagged as a brand new work, and then people kept doing it, that's why the rules are in place, and people seem to be getting strung up for it more often. 

 

This mod in particular was a case of several models being reported as not having proper credits, from years ago working into today. It shouldn't be as big an issue as it has been, but no one wants to see it as anything but strict rules victimizing others. 

 

Be thankful the content creators haven't gone the route that many other mod communities (like GTA) have that locks nearly all content when releasing it, so that it cannot be stolen, leaving it open for a reskin only. And many sites will only let you release the skins, not the model they go on, meaning you have to apply the skin yourself. The community here has been taking full use of other's work for granted and the content creators are getting fed up with it from what I've seen. 

 

Like I tell everyone. Just be sensible. If you worked long and hard on something, you'd want someone to get your go ahead before sharing it. We've always had these content controls in place, it's just lately they've been used a lot more because the behaviour of the community has demanded it. 

[Hoppah]

It seems like in my OPINION the modding community is somewhat held back by the requirements for permissions etc, there is hundreds of excellent mods out there that will remain private and away from public consumption due to individuals being uptight as hell about there work. They work hard and that's appreciated, but what do they really gain from keeping there stuff to themselves? Is it an ego thing or what?

 

The Manhattan mod team have always been pretty cool about the free use of there scripts and models, i'm not a fan of american mods, but certainly in my experiance the resources they provided in terms of scripts have greatly advanced the quality of work produced by the community, imagine if every mod team was like that? What standard of mod would we be getting? I'd bet it'd be significantly higher. 

Just an opinion, seeings as the topic has been openly discussed.

 

Pretty much of 'their' scripts and the entire base of the original (Manhattan) mod was developed from the LA Mod in the first place*, but lets just totally forget that right? Very convenient to try to 'win' an argument and turn things around. Now try again without posting half-truths and your post will get an entire different meaning. It summarizes, in my opinion, the current mindset of many users/modcreators at this moment. And no, ego doesn't have much to do about it otherwise the LA Mod would've never been an opensource project to inspire other modcreators, NYCERU included. Which seemed a good idea in the first place, but -jeez- is it really necessary to turn entire fanbase against the moderators of EMP?

 

 

*note: as a solid starting position at least anyway.

[Dyson]

We've all said our piece now, everyone leave it and move on.

[BGM17]

Pretty much of 'their' scripts and the entire base of the original (Manhattan) mod was developed from the LA Mod in the first place*, but lets just totally forget that right? Very convenient to try to 'win' an argument and turn things around. Now try again without posting half-truths and your post will get an entire different meaning. It summarizes, in my opinion, the current mindset of many users/modcreators at this moment. And no, ego doesn't have much to do about it otherwise the LA Mod would've never been an opensource project to inspire other modcreators, NYCERU included. Which seemed a good idea in the first place, but -jeez- is it really necessary to turn entire fanbase against the moderators of EMP?

 

 

*note: as a solid starting position at least anyway.

This is the last I'll say as per Dysons request. 

 

What you said underlines the point I was making, without you sharing your original content freely then ambitious projects like this could never have been started, credit where credit is due and people should always been thanked for there contributions but surley the community at large would be more healthy if everyone pooled there skills and talents?

I'm not attempting to turn anyone against the mods, I get what you're saying and where you're coming from, i'm just simply stating a differing long standing opinion. That's all it is, an opinion.  

[Hoppah]

You may be very well right there would be positive sides if everything was free to take, BUT it should be a modcreators free choice to make his stuff opensource and not a ground principle that stuff is free to take, alter and distribute again. That point is what -generally speaking- people tend to miss here, no matter if the original authors are properly credited.

 

This thought is pushing out a lot of talented people.

[Dyson]

Regardless the discussion is over all further posts will be on topic and any further debate can be taken to an alternate topic.

[helljumper51]

This also strikes the argument of proper credit. So maybe you do get permissions, how about crediting the right people? Or even this bullshit that has been going around where a person changes a skin and adds a few child's to the model and call it their own under artistic freedom. How about some honesty here. I model. I like to think I make pretty nice ones. And it takes me anywhere from 4 hours to 2 days creating the model, add 3 days to uv map which 90 percent of this community has no idea how to do, 4 hours to implement the model in game with scaling and properties, then another hour with lights. That's about a week long of work for one vehicle.

Now all the new modders out there take these already finished models, reskins them which takes anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours and then spend 30 minutes on lights and bam a "new" model. Now I download this mod and see my model altered and changed and now they get all the credit for the work. Yeah...this happens all the time. Then when a mod gets popular people think that the vehicle they reskinned is original and the modeler before was all forgotten. If the permissions system was not there like you want then you would have no models or scripts to take and use because the people who put in the work have left due to no gratification of their hard work. That is why we mod right? To bring content for the community and to get a nice little good job from people. It goes along way believe me.

So I see where you are trying to come from but I am telling you from experience that seeing your work in a mod and someone takes credit for it is one of the biggest insults you can do in the modding community. I support hoppah and Mikey in this. Besides, without those two 75% of American mods would not be around. It's like getting pissed at apple because they won't let you publish an app that they made and you just changed.

[Dyson]

Once again back to topic, on topic posts only. 

[Guest]

Let's try and get this sorted.soooo Dyson are the tech gonna have anything new?