Montana Mod v2.5 RELEASED

[Olympus1492]

Hello,

I'm a career firefighter in a small town of 2,500 people. Like most towns we have a small clinic that handles many things with the exception of cardiac, neurologic and cardiopulmonary resuscitation events. They do not except ambulances because of their lack of an emergency room; it's more of an 'urgent care' if you will. However, they get a significant volume of patient in by their own vehicles to the clinic of varying levels of severity, many of whom they utilize our ambulance service to ship out to the nearest metropolitan which is roughly thirty-five miles West, containing the state's level one trauma facility and several other hospital systems. 

Working fire and EMS in a small, rural community with resources that are stricken and slim most of the time provides it's challenges and we rely on volunteers to back up the paid staff daily. With that said, has there been any consideration in supplying the VFD in this mod with an ambulance, ran by the volunteers? Typically, volunteer departments in the midwest that do have ambulances will run a 'basic basic' truck, or on good days a 'basic intermediate' truck. Rarely, a paramedic will staff a VFD rescue, but it happens occasionally. Since you plan on having a 'BLS hospital' and an 'ALS hospital' off the map for transports, I was thinking it would be amazing to have the VFD capable of transporting the BLS calls and keeping the ALS units available for more major events. Additionally, working in a resource stricken area provides the necessity for thinking on your feet and taking risks. Often times a BLS ambulance will be the only unit left in the whole county, much less the city I work for, and will find themselves transporting strokes, heart attacks, CPR in progress and other ALS events to the nearest facility for stabilization or intercepts with an ambulance of higher care. All of these rural aspects of EMS provide and unique opportunity to model this game and modification thereof in an awesome fashion to realistically recreate the adrenaline and experience of being a 'basic basic' truck taking in high level calls. Just some food for thought; I have no idea how difficult it would actually be to integrate any of these things.

As for items to place in the emergency room shown above: hospitals will always have a waiting room connected to registration and triage. After patient's have registered, be it by ambulance or on their own, they will generally go through triage unless the event is obviously serious such as massive trauma, cardiac, neurologic or respiratory. After going through triage a patient will generally be placed back in the lobby for some amount of time until they are called back to "secondary triage" for patient's that may meet moderately serious criteria. Secondary triage is where IV lines can be started, and certain "intervention medications" can be given such as anti-emetics and opiate analgesics while the patient waits for a room to be seen by a doctor. After the patient's who make it to secondary triage have been treated they are sent back to the waiting room, hopefully feeling temporarily better, and wait again for a room in the actual ER. Anything emergently found during secondary triage will warrant the patient going directly from there to the ER. Common ER items include: crash carts, hospital beds, computer systems, "robo nurses" with vital machines, chairs, gurneys, IV carts, procedure rooms and the contents there of, "code rooms," curtains, employees, sharps buckets, bio bins, cleaning supplies, supply rooms, medication modules, paperwork, printers, food, desks, mobile x-ray machines, accuvein finder carts, etc.

Often times in small hospitals where higher level of care hospitals are far out of reach and patients are critical, helicopters or "IFT ambulances" will be utilized after the patient has been stabilized to the maximum of the facilities capabilities. If possible in this mod, it would be awesome to this concept integrated. For example a stroke could be transported to this facility on the map that is capable of contrast CT scans, but has no thrombolytic therapy or clot removal surgery capabilities. Then, an ambulance on the map or helicopter from the Dillon hospital could be summoned for a code three transfer to Dillon. 

Just some food for thought, hopefully helpful. Very excited to see this mod taking further shape! 

Also, that brush truck is badass. Will there be the potential for "pump and roll" with forestry lines and grass fires? Rural firefighting in the mid west is 75% medical, 10% structural and 15% wildland.

[itchboy]

Thanks for the long post. Very informative.

There is a way to make a more complex patient treating system for Em4 but no plans have been made to create it in the mod. The only thing that is in the works is the function for severe injuries automatically being transported off map. The player can also be forced to transport patients by helicopter only. We'll see what we can come up with over time.

BLS transport calls are something we have in mind. I just need to create it and figure out where it sits ingame.

We wont be doing a VFD ambulance and instead will rely on the county wide private ambulance provider. The ambulance stationed at the clinic will remain as is.

Pump and roll isnt planned. I dont think its even doable in Em4. I will bear in mind the ratio of callouts you've provided.

[Rlizard]

To add on to what Olympus said, 

I am a volunteer firefighter in a rural Dept as well with roughly 10-15 volunteers with a population of 6-7 thousand. people. Our area shares 1 ALS  ambulance with another area. That means there’s 1 ambulance for a population of 20-30 thousand people.

Because of that my Dept has created a first responder program (we don’t transport only provide BLS care) We have built a light rescue truck (formerly a SUV)  to handle all the medical calls. Besides basic transport calls we will respond with the Ambulance in are area. So that means we show up before the ambulance get there and we do support BLS.

 If the ambulance is out of the area (closest hospital is 10 miles away). We will handle all the medical incidents in the area, meaning we will mutual- aid the other city (they don’t have a medical program) for medical calls and we wait till either a ambulance from another city comes or ours returns. 

 

I don’t know what kind of EMS is planned to be on the map, but if there only is going to be 1  ambulance. I strongly suggest give the VFD a suv or medical truck (they don’t have to transport just like us) but they can help stabilize the PT till a ambulance can get there.

My Dept calls are roughly 85% medical, 3% structure, 8% MVAs (wrecks), 5% trash fires/ grass fires/ other.  

 

I do love your brush truck, that plus 2 engines maybe a tanker, a squad or resuce truck (F-350, or pickup) and a command unit and that’s basically what half VFDs in Texas have for apparatus.

[Fred03]

We have the same sort of program for our county (1 ALS ambulance for 3 towns run by an ambulance service) but we don't have a dedicated vehicle, all our first responders (EMRs or EMTs) respond from home in their personal vehicles.

[itchboy]

There's going to be 1 ALS ambulance on map, another 2 ALS off map. Then 2 off map BLS ambulances.

I dont want to make any more additions to the real life agencies because the pdf (attached here - see page 10) specifies the vehicles they have IRL. The fictional ones, I am open to changing but not by very much. Maybe the brush truck can be given some medical abilities, or the engine.

In the attached pdf, it makes mention to an extracation or crash truck. Is this an example of a rescue engine?

CWPP-2010-Update.pdf

[Rlizard]

Which Dept mentions it? 

If its beaverhead EMS, it’s most likely a F-350 or bigger pickup with roll-up drawers or cabinets in the bed of the truck that has rescue equipment. A new example of this my depts new squad 2 look it up on our site http://www.sanleonvfd.net/.

 

If you are referring to Lima Fire Dept, it’s a mini-pumper. So it’s a F-550 (2004) with a rescue body on the back with water and a pump. If you aren’t going to use the Ambulances they have. Then just put a medical bag on this truck and it can dual as a first responder vehicle and rescue truck. 

 

 

[itchboy]

I was referring to the EMS one. That was the unit that sounded similar to the light rescue truck you mentioned. How does it work? Does it have the jaws of life or does it only carry medical supplies?

The 2004 Lima truck is the red one in the screenshot I put up. Assuming they carry medical bags, does that mean the volunteer FF's should have the ability to use it?

You may or may not have noticed but the pdf file I am using as a source is 8 years out of date. The actual departments have changed their vehicles considerably. In the fictional universe of this mod, Lima VFD has donated its old engine to Monida- that is why Monida has the 1981 Ford truck.

A major thing that the pdf does not cover is the Fire District system in the actual area. There are numerous vehicles bearing the fire district liveries but are staffed by members of the departments covered in the district. District #1 is Lima and what would be Monida, while #2 is Dillon and Grant (not in the mod), and #3 being Jackson and Wisdom (neither will be in the mod).

The pdf mentions a county fire department but all other sources tell me the fire districts are county wide fire system. Id like some clarification regarding this before I continue with the vehicles of the mod.

Here are some of the fire district vehicles. These are the ones based out of Dillon VFD. There are zero pictures of the fire district vehicles from Lima. Whether these vehicles make it into the mod or not depends on whether these would do mutual aid to Monida or not.

http://www.emergency-planet.com/uploads/monthly_2018_04/Untitled.png.f8681b7adf8727a730bebbbca386db86.png

[Rlizard]

Yes, the EMS truck will carry everything on medic (ambulance) plus tools (jaws of life) for an extrication (car wreck), but it will not transport.

It’s should be staffed with a 2 rescue medics (medics who has some extricating training) to cut them out of a car. My depts squad 2 as stated above is a great example of it, (because it carries medical equipment and a set of “jaws of life”) 

Put a box on the back of a pickup (make it level with the cab) then make compartment doors all over it. Look up “Frazer UCV” 

 

 

As for the Lima truck yes it should have a medical bag. (Also if it’s the truck on top of the page I suggest we name it rescue or squad  because brush truck implies it’s only for wildland fires)  

this truck is similar to my depts booster truck, they probably use it for the following (this is what I’ve gathered from the spreadsheet) 

-car wrecks (carries the “jaws of life” first out to that)

-brush fires, due to 4x4 and 300gal tank. 

-probably first out medical vehicle, if the ambulance is out of district this truck fills in as a first responder vehicle (Stabilizes the patient till ambulance comes)

-manpower vehicle, it’s the only 4 seater in there fleet. 

-(this one more of a real life issue vs mod) idk the rules for Montana but in Texas to drive a engine (26,001 pounds or more gvwr) you need a class B license. Meaning if there no one at the station with that they take this truck to all the Structure fires. 

[itchboy]

Great, thanks for the response.

We've run into a bit of conflict though. All those vehicles would render the DVFD rescue truck useless because there's no other reason to bring the vehicle on map. The Lima crash truck and EMS rescue truck already carry the jaws of life. We have a choice of the following: the abilities of those vehicles need to be scaled back, the rescue is to be excluded from the mod entirely, or the rescue truck needs to be given its own unique set of calls that it would need to respond to.

[Rlizard]

Well here’s and idea, 

in my career I’ve never heard or seen a Dept requesting mutual-aid for equipment for a car-wreck. Sure I’ve seen we called other units for manpower but we don’t need there equipment. If that makes sense? So like Lima VFD really doesn’t need to be equipped with jaws of life. 

 

I think the beaverhead EMS crash truck could be useful in its own way. Having this unit on map gives the mod 2 Ems resources. We talked about early having the FD respond to Ems calls we can forget that, If we add there crash truck on map. because gameplay wise you can transport 1 PT then have the crash truck go to the next call stabilize the pt and have the ambulance come back from the hospital to take the next pt or request an off map ambulance.

As for the equipment on the Ems truck that’s up to you, I needed to be refreshed on what you plan to add to the fire Dept on map. I’ve played the Montana mod v2? And idk if you plan to keep the 2x engines, brush truck and command unit. But if 1 FD unit on map has jaws of life and you can call DVFD rescue truck for more major calls like water rescues or if you needed the jump-pad then there is no point the have any rescue equipment for Ems truck besides a medical bag.  

[Fred03]

Don't forget that a lot of rural areas are spread out enough that medical providers respond POV to medical calls to stabilize. Especially since this mod is portraying a rural area it wouldn't make sense to have anyone at the fire station unless maybe a chief/mechanic. Its entirely plausible for a town of 2,000 to have no one at the station most of the time.

I'd personally suggest instead of a EMS SUV the mod just sticks with a rescue/brush that would have water, jaws and medical gear. Then maybe have the chief have a vehicle that's marked but that he/she uses as a personal vehicle while in the district so its on-map but not always at the station. That vehicle could have a EMS bag in it as well.

In my opinion the things that will make this mod seem realistic to most rural VFD situations is: POVs, Few vehicles, few/random amounts of volunteers (loved that about the newest version), and a reliance on mutual aid from off-map.

As for the requesting the jaws from another fire department its possible. In my area one fire district didn't have its own set for a while but they didn't have many extrication crashes either. I've also heard of requesting another set of jaws if there is a major wreck with multiple patients needing extrication. But since in EM4 extrication is done quickly (wonder if that can be changed) and each vehicle has a bottomless supply of the equipment it carries (20 firefighters can get the 20 jaws from the same truck) I don't see a reason to mutual aid for extrication in EM4.

Water Rescue is its own thing, it would be easier/faster for the VFD to just get one of the members to bring their own (private) boat than to wait for one to come from another district. But since we're looking for a way to include off-map resources its really not a bad way to do it. Or you could have the boat resource come from another agency, sheriff or Montana fish and game or something similar.

For the jump-pad I see the need for it in game due to specific events but in all actuality its not the sort of thing most VFDs carry unless they have a LOT of events that would require it. Its a cool thing but its just not used that often in the rural rescue service (or the American fire service in general for that matter). Most suicide attempts are either talked down, jump or are grabbed. In the game it seems like the sort of thing that might be part of a regional USAR squad (FEMA has ones all over in coordination with fire departments).

[tbone1fire]

It would be nice to see some of the volunteers actually be able to heal instead of stabilize. and have some povs be able to go to the scene.

[itchboy]

Monida FD (on map) is getting an engine, tanker and one brush truck. Perhaps the jaws of life can go to the brush? Yes, extracation times can indeed be changed. I have been in talks with another modder with the idea of modelling in bracings and supports that need to be installed on wrecked vehicles before they can be cut. I have also been thinking of doing an edit to the jaws code which requires a second firefighter to assist the firefighter doing the cutting.

On map EMS is an ambulance. I will be doing the EMS rescue truck but as an off map resource. Logic tells me that a more populated area like Dillon will need it more than Monida. I want to keep the EMS supervisor vehicle as a way of calling outside EMS assistance.

Water rescue is going to the Beaverhead SAR company. http://www.beaverheadsar.org/equipmentandgear They are volunteer and as @Fred03 predicted, provide their own equipment. They will also do SAR K9s and I have 2 vehicles lined up for them. The SWR is an older F series ford with a utility body, and the K9 dog vehicle is a volunteer POV.

In order to make the DVFD rescue truck useful, can anyone suggest a very common technical rescue call that would make the rescue rig essential?

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Thanks for reminding me I still need to re-implement the random volunteer script. I removed it back in 2016 and never bothered putting it back.

[Fred03]

I suspect the most common technical rescue call you'd see is something with low-angle rescue like cars or injured people down embankments. Maybe you could make it Rescue-Hazmat and give it some hazmat abilities? Neither technical rescue or Hazmat are used that often in rural areas so it would make sense to combine them on one vehicle.

[TheBus]

Technical rescues in a rural area could include things like the do-it-yourself guy who gets trapped under a car that he's working on or a construction worker getting trapped in or under something. Possibly something minor like a kid with his head stuck or something very major like a kid trapped in an abandoned mine shaft.

[itchboy]

8 minutes ago, Fred03 said:

I suspect the most common technical rescue call you'd see is something with low-angle rescue like cars or injured people down embankments. Maybe you could make it Rescue-Hazmat and give it some hazmat abilities? Neither technical rescue or Hazmat are used that often in rural areas so it would make sense to combine them on one vehicle.

Hazmat exists as its own unique unit. The pdf I provided a few posts ago mentions a Hazmat van of some kind which we believe to be a box truck with hazmat supplies in the back. Hazmat events are already ingame and working. Theyre simplistic to say the least. No spill cleanup, no identifying the source. Just go in and use the truck and everythings taken care of. Maybe I should add spill cleanup then?

Other German mods have hazmat fires that explode when you add water to them. I might try and implement that.

There arent any embankments or low level places on the Monida map. What kind of technical rescue would happen in a flat plain rural area? I can imagine a farmer getting trapped in a silo (because that happens IRL apparently).

1 minute ago, TheBus said:

Technical rescues in a rural area could include things like the do-it-yourself guy who gets trapped under a car that he's working on or a construction worker getting trapped in or under something. Possibly something minor like a kid with his head stuck or something very major like a kid trapped in an abandoned mine shaft.

I spoke to someone before and they mentioned people falling down abandoned wells. I could try the construction worker getting trapped, it sounds interesting.

Building collapse is the "big" thing that people want but I dont have the time to model in custom damaged buildings....unless someone's willing to do that for me.

[Fred03]

Ideas for rural area

Person stuck underground: Collapsed well, cave, mine, etc.

Person stuck above ground: hanging off crane or powerpole.

Trench collapse

Person pinned by vehicle (like TheBus) said.

Tractor accident/MVA

 

[n00bingtarget]

Back when I was a member of my hometown VFD, we had what we called an Equipment Van.  This vehicle was used to bring additional FF to the scene, and carried things like our Jaws, extra SCBA, cribbing, our cascade air refill system, extra spine boards and medical supplies for multi-vehicle / mass casualty incidents, and when we got them the airbags for lifting / stabilizing vehicles etc.

Originally was like an old bread van or tool van converted to our use.  But eventually we got a larger vehicle like an old Rescue rig.

This unit would respond along with engine and ambulance for any MVA.  It also gave you extra scene lighting.

 

Does that help?  If you limit your number of FF on the VFD engine, you can have a supplement vehicle like this for more FF.

 

[Fred03]

One of my neighboring VFDs had something similar. It was just an SUV that they slapped some markings an a lightbar on it and they used it to haul people to training, to fire scenes and bring SCBAs and other stuff. I think a utility vehicle might fit in well. Might make sense to make it a trailer and just have it able to be pulled by POVs or the brush truck though if its a really small department.

Another real world example I know of is that Shenandoah National Park used to have "mass casualty drums" which were 55 gallon drums (fuel cylinders) that were filled with equipment for mass casualty events (cots, tags, etc) staged around the park and in the event of a bus crash or something like that they'd send someone in a pickup truck to get the closest one.

[itchboy]

8 hours ago, n00bingtarget said:

Does that help?  If you limit your number of FF on the VFD engine, you can have a supplement vehicle like this for more FF.

It helps, it means that our educated guess on the mutual aid Hazmat van is probably correct if your department had something similar.

 

3 hours ago, Fred03 said:

Might make sense to make it a trailer and just have it able to be pulled by POVs or the brush truck though if its a really small department.

I actually have an equipment trailer concept planned but not for FD. Its for the off map SWAT from 2 counties over.

This is going into the mod unless we can figure out how Beaverhead county and Dillon PD (the only police agencies in the county) handle SWAT.

[Fred03]

Oh coolio.

[spiresgm]

I think that the idea of implementing an equipment van would be something that would be realistic. Also, do you plan on adding in the oil-dry script that is in some German mods? I could see some of the rescue trucks carrying a few bags of oil-dry for MVA's, but the equipment van have a larger supply for large incidents.

[itchboy]

1 hour ago, spiresgm said:

I think that the idea of implementing an equipment van would be something that would be realistic. Also, do you plan on adding in the oil-dry script that is in some German mods? I could see some of the rescue trucks carrying a few bags of oil-dry for MVA's, but the equipment van have a larger supply for large incidents.

The equipment van is already in the mod but but its an off map, mutual aid unit.

Oil dry? I think I'll do it on the condition I figure out how to make the oil spills a requirement in the missionscript. Right now, the script I created doesnt distinguish between regular debris and oil spills so that is something I need to put together.

I also need to make the commands work in a way that they dont conflict with any other commands.

Model by me. Its gonna be getting some surface mounted halogen and strobe lights. Cheeeaaa.

[Jennifer93]

for the swat team try the Metropolitan Law Enforcement Council style set up

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Metropolitan Law Enforcement Council
Covering Southeastern Massachusetts
Metropolitan Law Enforcement Council is multi agency law enforcement association of over 40 local police and sheriff departments in the south metropolitan Boston, Massachusetts area. The agency is staffed by officers of the member departments. The agency has a Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team, a Crisis Negotiation Team (CNT), a Tactical Emergency Medical Support unit (TEMS), a Regional Response Team (RRT) for search and rescue, a motorcycle division, K-9 units, and more.

[CamoflaugeKoala]

Was unaware that this awesome mod was still being updated, good to see.

Can't wait to play the finished product, it's looking amazing so far and good to see all the community engagement and participation.