Scottish independence

[met police999]

I was thinking to myself about the referendum here in scottland for independence I may be too young to vote but what does every one else think it dosnt matter if your not from the uk so what's your view

[hunter42]

Currently I disagree with Scottish independence and will vote against it in 2014.

The SNP's big selling point is that we'll be the 8th richest nation because we have oil supplies in the north sea and the country is very suitable for wind power. Well firstly, no one can confirm that Scotland would be the 8th wealthiest country in the world - only pro SNP seem to be able to prove that (not even independent sources have proved it). Secondly, wind power is pretty useless. A huge windmill has been installed in Dunfermline's industrial estate and can be seen for miles around - but it does NOTHING, I see it everytime I go into town, college or the train station and it hardly move, it's a total waste of time.

A problem that needs to be addressed is friction created by the use of "UK" AND the lack of unification.

Every year, news corporations pproduce headlines along the lines of "Hottest summer in UK for Decade" or "Hose pipe ban to hit Britain as sunny weather continues". These headlines apply to London and South England, nowhere else - the midlands will be mild, and N.England and Scotland will have rainy weather. I know it sounds daft, but using UK, Britain or GB to refer to a small area and it is causing resentment - People at high school didn't like it, and people at college don't like it as they feel they are being excluded.

It's not just the SNP and their supporters that are causing problems for unification, certain people in England aren't helping the idea of keeping the UK unified. Some of my family went down to somewhere in York for the weekend. When they went out shopping and tried to hand over money notes, the shop keepers refused to accept them because they were Scottish (if you don't understand, Scottish money is not classed as legal tender, but it's just a silly trivial matter and doesn't make a difference to anything). In the end, they had to find a bank so they could exchange their notes for English ones. It's just ridiculous and petty. Your money isn't worth less if it's represented by a Scottish note or an English note, it's money. Just accept the bloody thing and be happy you've made some business.

There's other points I've missed out, but I'm beginning to rant instead of make points, so TL;DR - Scottish independence = bad, but nobodies doing a good job at stopping it from happening.

Also this video explains terminology if anyone's interested.

[theocd]

Independence might have worked 50 years ago before the UK as a whole started pumping the Scottish Oil away from the Scots. Also, if they want independence, our spineless governement must make a point of cutting all the funding that goes to Scotland, that coupled with the lack of national resources means they would go under.

Its currently unviable and I hope it doesn't get passed, I completely agree with Hunter42 in that we should be moving towards a more unified UNITED KINGDOM (clues in the name hence CAPS!). Its not exactly helping Britain be Great with all the infighting.

The OC-D

[met police999]

im too young to understand all this but id like Scotland to be independent but then again im leaving it to the pros

[Voodoo_Operator]

No matter how this turns out, good luck you guys.

Signed: Quebec.

[Newfoundking]

My thoughts exactly. This really just seems like another Quebec thing. Wanting independance, but in reality not really being able to do it. Scotland has been a part of England now for hundreds of years, and just cause they want to say, We're ready to leave now, doesn't mean they are actually ready. As I've learned from Quebec's numerous attempts (3 I think) you've gotta look at three things, first, if leaving will create shit in the way of logistics. Right now, the Churchill Falls project is worth something like a couple hundred million or more a year. If they left Canada, then the contract would be voided, and Newfoundland would take that back, since it was made with the Province of Quebec, not the country. I would imagine that this would be the case of similar set ups in Scotland/UK.

The next is can you really support yourselves? A lot of entities are fine in a team, but if they broke off, well hot damn, they'd die off really quick, because the rely on things from taxes, to deals. From my understanding Scotland contributes a lot, but also takes a lot from the group money share (that's what I'm calling it.) There seems to be a concern that leaving works financially on paper, but not in reality... From my understanding as well, a lot of the emergency services are part of the National thing in the UK, and my next question is would it still be feasible, would things like the NHS disappear? Newfoundland has that problem. If we ever left Canada (which we don't want to), there would be very few places in the province with police services, as most of the province's police are RCMP. And honestly, I doubt that the treasury would be able to fund the expansion of the RNC enough to cover the full province as primary police services.

The final thing you need to look at is do people really want to be citizens of Scotland instead of the United Kingdom. Five hundred years ago, it might've been important, but now, no one really knows what's on the go over there (Scotland is a nation state, but it's part of the UK, which is the country ) so that one might not hurt too much. Sometimes the country's name helps sell a lot better than the actual country. Oh, this is Canadian, instead of Oh, this is from Newfoundland

Seems to me the SNP is a huge amount like the BQ in Canada, and I'd want to see a third party's review of all their statements before supporting them

[hunter42]

My thoughts exactly. This really just seems like another Quebec thing.

Exactly like that. There's Aircraftg carriers being built in Glasgow and Rosyth for the Royal navy, so independence would see that contract moved south of the border, costing millions.

The next is can you really support yourselves? ... and my next question is would it still be feasible, would things like the NHS disappear? Newfoundland has that problem. If we ever left Canada (which we don't want to), there would be very few places in the province with police services, as most of the province's police are RCMP. And honestly, I doubt that the treasury would be able to fund the expansion of the RNC enough to cover the full province as primary police services.

Note quite. The NHS is split up for each country, so there's NHS Scotland, NHS England etc that operate similary. I don't know if the NHS is paid for by one big pot from Westminster (divided for needs and population of course)

The Police are probably linked up to the Nation police database, allowing access from all over the UK, but policing itself is done by counties - Fife Constabulary, Lothian and Borders police etc. and I'm fairly certain that the Scottish government finances this (which is why they want to make one whole police force - probably in the same manner as the RCMP. The same applies to the fire service.

The final thing you need to look at is do people really want to be citizens of Scotland instead of the United Kingdom.

People in Scotland prefer to be called 'Scottish' instead of 'British', but that's as far as it really goes. I think the problem lies with the idea that people outside Scotland don't consider Scotland to be a country (or a country on par with England). It doesn't sound like much, but it has gotten to people. I would be surprised if anyone truly wanted independence though.

(Scotland is a nation state, but it's part of the UK, which is the country )

Although Scotland is a nation state, it's more commonplace to say England, N.I, Scotland and Wales are countries - which then makes the U.K a "Country of countries". Each has had a long history as being independent countries, so people here believe it's more appropriate to call them countries.

From what I've understood from older members of my college class, a few decades ago people and the media stopped considering N.I, Scotland and Wales as "countries", and started considering them parts of England. In Scotland, we generally see foreigners use England to refer to parts of the UK that aren't England. I think the people (mainly those from the 70s and 80s) want to see the rest of the world referring to places like N.I, Scotland and Wales as countries and realise that the UK is a country made up of countries. But many have mistakenly believed that the SNP are here to correct that. I know it sounds like a really silly thing, but people see it as a problem, and you can't just dismiss problems - otherwise they grow and 2014 onwards will be one hell of a ride.

Also there's the SNP elite who truly believe in independence, but the only people they are impressing is themselves.

[goog]

[Newfoundking]

I'm still hoping that Charles (if he ever becomes king) ends the monarchy. It's really pointless. Totally.

[met police999]

Not really because its another thing that's good about being connected like just something to feel good about

[aitor]

I'm still hoping that Charles (if he ever becomes king) ends the monarchy. It's really pointless. Totally.

Same in Spain, they are just a spending of money.

[theocd]

I dunno the maths but the revenue created by the Royal Family is significant, if equal to their cost, I don't know. I also think it is something that is unique to Britain, few countires have such an established monarchy in Great Britain, when people think of the Queen, most think of Elizabeth II, the Queen of England.

The OC-D

[Dyson]

I'm still hoping that Charles (if he ever becomes king) ends the monarchy. It's really pointless. Totally.

Actually the monarchy actually generate a substantial amount of our economy. As daft as it sounds our tiny little island has very little to offer, except history, which the Americans etc do not have so much of. And besides being a tourist attraction, cos there isn't much else to see over here tbh haha they also own a large quantity of high end land, which generates even more money, there was some youtube vid on it but I can't seem to find it, but basically, regardless of how pointless they seem, they have many benefits

x

[hunter42]

they also own a large quantity of high end land, which generates even more money, there was some youtube vid on it but I can't seem to find it

?

[Newfoundking]

Eh, I dunno, I find that it's really rather pointless that the monarchy still plays a role in the government. In Canada, it's required we have an appointed representative at a federal AND provincial level of the queen. Technically, they leader of Canada is the Governor General, not the Prime Minister