What is asking for release dates?

[Voodoo_Operator]

I thought I'd clarify the definition of asking for release dates. Lately, a lot of people have been trying to get away with it by using fancy sentencing. Here are a few examples of things that are considered asking for release dates:

I know it's against the rules to ask for release dates, but...

Wait, what? If you know it, then why would you do it? If you need to start a question like that, you might want to stop asking it altogether. You're probably going to be breaking the rules soon after the word "but".

Do you think you could give us an estimate of when your mod is coming out? Month? Season? Business quarter? Moon phase? etc.

Aaaaaah, yes. Clever. You ask for an estimate instead of a precise date. But don't fool yourself, this will also be considered as asking for release dates, and will result in the same consequences.

Do you think you could give an advancement percentage on your mod? Maybe a nice graph? Pie charts?

I call this "reverse asking for release dates". The modder gives you a percentage and you kind of try to deduce the release date by yourself based on how far the percentages have gotten.

Well I've got news for you: If the modder can't give you precise release dates, why would he take some of his precious time to carefully evaluate the completion percentage of every aspect of his work? Don't you think the time he spends maintaining those statistics will be time he doesn't spend working on stuff?

Some modders do decide to keep completion percentages of their work. It's their choice. However, asking for such percentages from modders who decide not to use them will be considered as "reverse asking for release dates". And you can't have "reverse asking for release dates" without "asking for release dates".

I wonder how your mod is coming along...

Subtle. And yet very annoying. Here's a clue: Read the last post by the mod author, that should give you an answer as to how the mod is coming along. And if that last post was made about 8 months ago, here's another answer: It's not really coming around at all because the author is busy with real life and/or has stopped working on the mod.

Don't bother asking.

OMG, you guys have been working on this mod for two years, why aren't you done already? What is this? OMG FRAUD! FRAUD! LIARS! YOU SWINDLED US ALL, OH MY GOD, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! YOU GUYS ARE DOUCHES! YOU LET US DOWN! YOU LET YOUR BROTHERS DOWN! RELEASE AT ONCE OR YOU SHALL BE CALLED FRAUDS, AND SO WILL YOUR CHILDREN AND YOUR CHILDREN'S CHILDREN!!!!

Calm down. Go get some fresh air outside, numbnuts.

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Hope I made myself clear. If not, feel free to ask below and I/we shall answer. Better ask here then to get a 2-day ban somewhere else. Voodoo out.

[MAN007]

Hey I fully agree with you! Some things that you said might seem funny, but in reality, it proves to be very serious. This topic should be stickied in all of the forum sections and their respective subsections. Thanks VooDoo!

Also, dont forget everyone that even if a mod author did give a release date, it would more than likely be subject to change anyway (real life, problems with mod, (etc.)). Therefore, like VooDoo said, there really is no point in making/asking for release dates!

MAN007/jackmap reporting out!

[groovybluedog]

So if a mod has been on hold a while and I want to ask if development is ongoing still, I may risk being banned?

EDIT: I got a warning for asking for release dates before this post was made. I think it's unfair I get that warning as I did not know that sort of sentence structure counted as against the rules :/

EDIT2: I wish someone would of made that clearer before the warning. Google defines a date as "the specified day of the month", in which a percentage is not a "specified day of the month".

[hunter42]

So if a mod has been on hold a while and I want to ask if development is ongoing still, I may risk being banned?

EDIT: I got a warning for asking for release dates before this post was made. I think it's unfair I get that warning as I did not know that sort of sentence structure counted as against the rules :/

Don't see why you would risk a ban/warning. Asking if a mod is dead or alive is fairly different to asking for a release date.

"Counted against the rules"

It's actually in the Terms that you agree to when you sign up. Section 4 "Netiquette", 4th point:

Asking for release dates in this community is not appreciated, please avoid asking on purpose. Abuse will result in a warning!

If you asked only once, then I guess an official warning could be argued as being harsh. But equally, they can justify it as being in the Terms which are agreed upon (also taking in the fact that there was quite a bit of a 'debate' about release dates a while back. IIRC, it got quite heated).

[groovybluedog]

Yes, "Asking for release dates in this community is not appreciated" - A date is a specific day of the month. It says nothing in the terms regarding percentages though. I don't want to get into a huge argument about it though.

[Voodoo_Operator]

So if a mod has been on hold a while and I want to ask if development is ongoing still, I may risk being banned?

We still use common sense. First of all, the worse that can happen for asking for release dates is a 2-day ban (although I guess we may consider a permanent ban for a repeating offender, but that has never happened yet). Secondly, I'm merely giving examples here of things that may be considered annoying. Common sense dictates that if there have been no postings from a mod author for a while, he's probably not doing any secret progress on his mod. While keeping everyone in the dark is not a very good way to keep your fans happy (the least you can do is post a note about being away for a while, and/or ask the moderators to close your topic), it is bothersome to see month-old topics spring back to the top of the forums because of a "Any progress? What's going on?" post.

Keep in mind that the rule is discretionary. While I like to shake the boomstick to discourage those behaviors, we (moderators) make judgement calls, and while just plain asking for a release date will often result in a 2-day ban, there will also be situations where a warning, or even an informal comment, will be enough.

I got a warning for asking for release dates before this post was made. I think it's unfair I get that warning as I did not know that sort of sentence structure counted as against the rules :/

I'm not adding any new rules here. I'm merely clarifying them to avoid future warnings. But what's done is done.

I wish someone would of made that clearer before the warning. Google defines a date as "the specified day of the month", in which a percentage is not a "specified day of the month".

The purpose of this topic is specifically to avoid debating semantics. I don't care what Merriam-Webster says, these are the rules HERE.

[Newfoundking]

So if a mod has been on hold a while and I want to ask if development is ongoing still, I may risk being banned?

EDIT: I got a warning for asking for release dates before this post was made. I think it's unfair I get that warning as I did not know that sort of sentence structure counted as against the rules :/

EDIT2: I wish someone would of made that clearer before the warning. Google defines a date as "the specified day of the month", in which a percentage is not a "specified day of the month".

To answer simply, we put out this rule long ago, and stated any form of it would be punished. Lately we've just decided to get specific since unless it's written in bold post in a sarcastic manner, no one believes it and will argue it to the death. Long story short, you're stuck with your warning.

Yes, "Asking for release dates in this community is not appreciated" - A date is a specific day of the month. It says nothing in the terms regarding percentages though. I don't want to get into a huge argument about it though.

Trying to be stealthy about it just gets you punished either way.

Keep in mind that the rule is discretionary. While I like to shake the boomstick to discourage those behaviors, we (moderators) make judgement calls, and while just plain asking for a release date will often result in a 2-day ban, there will also be situations where a warning, or even an informal comment, will be enough.

I'm not adding any new rules here. I'm merely clarifying them to avoid future warnings. But what's done is done.

If you're sensible, we won't punish you, but if you think you can get a relative release date from progress of the mod by pestering for information (that's what it comes down to, pestering) then we'll punish. Most of us are sensible and won't beat you unless you break a rule... There's a lotta experience on this staff, and we've seen every different way to ask for a release date, so trying to be stealthy will still get a warning..

[pyrofreak]

Thank You for posting this Voodoo, and of course you too NFK.

[C.F.D]

[keepachris]

haha better still just dont mention the word "release" because most of the moderators on here are idiots and love to show they have "almighty power"

[C.F.D]

^^^^

[Newfoundking]

My feelings are hurt now, I am not an idiot, and I don't just at the word release, I just at the word date when following release

In all seriousness though, I don't appreciate being called an idiot, we do a lotta work here, and it kinda sucks when we've gotta go and warn and ban people, but the unfortunate truth is it's how we enforce rules, this was brought in after the staff and many mod creators (most of the staff also have mods) got tired of being constantly badgered looking for when the next version was coming out and after several topics started their own no release dates, we made it an official rule, and then we had to increase punishment onwards because people just weren't getting it wasn't allowed

[MikeyPI]

We are used to being called evil names.. it goes with the territory of managing to attempt to keep a site under control, if it makes you feel better to call us names feel free, even though it's against the TOS to Troll/flame... But I digress, so when is this mod comming out?

[Voodoo_Operator]

My feelings are hurt now, I am not an idiot, and I don't just at the word release, I just at the word date when following release

Hold on, now. He said "most" moderators are idiots. He didn't say who. Maybe you're in the clear.

[C.F.D]

I know who...

[Dakota]

haha better still just dont mention the word "release" because most of the moderators on here are idiots and love to show they have "almighty power"

heh I agree that this forum is very strict as far as the moderators go. I come from a background of more clan/console based and graphic design type forums and have had my experience in managing my own over the years and I disagree with the policies these guys use from time to time. But what can ya do? Nothing unfortunately. Voicing your concerns are unlikely to do anything as this forum has a bit of a monopoly on the English speaking Emergency modding community so if you're banned here you can't really find another place to get your fill so to speak. So you just have to mind the rules and keep quiet for now.

[Voodoo_Operator]

heh I agree that this forum is very strict as far as the moderators go. I come from a background of more clan/console based and graphic design type forums and have had my experience in managing my own over the years and I disagree with the policies these guys use from time to time. But what can ya do? Nothing unfortunately. Voicing your concerns are unlikely to do anything as this forum has a bit of a monopoly on the English speaking Emergency modding community so if you're banned here you can't really find another place to get your fill so to speak. So you just have to mind the rules and keep quiet for now.

This may come as a surprise to you, but I would tend to agree with you on us being strict. I'm glad you've made your point in a mature way instead of trying to antagonize us by calling us idiots.

The thing is, your background clearly has an influence on how you view the way we run things here. By clan/console, I think you imply that the players involved are somewhat mature (save for a few byproducts of bad parenting who got their hands on M-rated games at age 12). I would imagine that graphic design involves an even more mature level, possibly college students and upwards. In such communities, most members have at least basic notions of netiquette, and are relatively mature. Any member that pops up and breaks the written (or unwritten) rules will soon be an outcast and will be driven to leave long before any moderator has his word to say about it.

Here, the situation is different. Instead of a clearly mature game/topic, we're covering a game that may be enjoyed by kids and adults alike, albeit for different reasons. I'd "guesstimate" the proportion as being 60% of members under 15 years old, about 25% between 15 and 18, and 15% over 18. As far as I know, we staff members, and probably most content creators as well, are all in that last 15%.

If the Emergency series had been rated M for Mature (Come to think of it, how could a game that shows graphic puddles of blood, and is one of the only games on the market - if not the only one - in which children can die, have not been rated M? ), this community would probably be comprised of the 40% aged 15 and up. Then we could probably hope that people would start listening to our advice, and would understand/follow basic netiquette rules such as not constantly harrassing content creators for release dates. You know what, there's even a chance that we wouldn't even need to have that rule: people just wouldn't do it. Nor would they try to get away with stealing other people's work, getting into flame wars, spamming to boost their post counts, etc.

But as it turns out, it's just not how things are. Why do we shake the stick, threatening to hand out warnings and bans all over the place? Because it's the only method that works. Sometimes it just becomes so absurd that we start making fun of it. And the next thing you know, to anyone coming from the outside, it sounds like we're drunk with power. But in the end we're just a happy bunch of cynical old farts who really wish they wouldn't have to enforce this place as if it was some kind of kindergarden.

By the way, I'm not saying I despise younger members. Most of them follow the rules, and if they slip once, they won't make the same mistake twice. But yeah, there are also a lot of kids with the "Gimme gimme" and "Screw you, I'm right, you're wrong" attitude, and since they come here to look at the shiny toys we've got on display, the only thing we can do to make them behave is to threaten to take those toys away from them. I personally apologize if that makes us look like huge douches in the process. Try seeing it as a game and playing along. Makes it a lot funnier.

/my 2 cents.

[MikeyPI]

Depressingly, voodoo there is right... If people had at least semi-reasonable common sense to apply to this site's forums we'd be extremely lazy on enforcing much of anything.. Unfortunately the juvie count on this site is extremely biased vs. the responsible proper members that can play nicely with one another.... When you mix and mingle people of varying ages, you're usually going to end up with problems... Trust me we'd much rather do our own thing in our own little worlds rather than having to actually moderate left and right, but unfortunately people love to try to be clever and side-step a rule which is why so many of them here are more arbitrary instead of being "firm" rules... Semantics may work in the court of law, but in the law of common sense everyone should know the intended purpose of a rule. I'd much rather drink and just pop by and see everything is appropriate, but unfortunately some members forget children do roam this site because it is an all-ages type of game, means that content has to be watched far more carefully...

I'm not saying the majority is prone to misbehaving, as is always the case it's a small group that always ends up ruining things for everyone, but such is the progression of life, if the world were fair we wouldnt have to play kindergarden teachers... But unfortunately it isnt how it works, and sadly alotta decent normal members get caught in the crossfire because of the occasional one that think they are clever and try to side-step the rules.... Love it or leave it, we have to try to keep things under control and unfortuantely it's a tough job sometimes to do that.

As voodie said ty for being mature in voicing your critisisms towards us, you could've went the route many favor and acted like a juvie with insults a'plenty but you voiced your opinion and we actually do read em when they are written mature=)

[C.F.D]

Nicely said Voodoo and Mikey. One day you'll have your Golden Shower.

I have very little patience for stupidity. This day is bananas. B-A-N-A-N-A-S.

[Voodoo_Operator]

Nicely said Voodoo and Mikey. One day you'll have your Golden Shower.

I have very little patience for stupidity. This day is bananas. B-A-N-A-N-A-S.

[keepachris]

i understand that yeah you have to enforce asking for release dates which does annoy the hell out of me when i look through pages and pages of people asking. but i once used a forum modthesims to grab something off there for my cousin and i dont know what it is but that forum was just so much more nicer to visit (even though emergency planet is a forum i visit everyday) everybody was helping eachother with problems on there (which i do see on here from time to time) but there was just a better feeling about the place. no moaning or arguing also just frustrates me when i see a mod pop up in submods and get to page 88 or something silly and its never been released but it is still listed on here i dont think all moderators are idiot just most of the time i see moderators posting it is always non constructive or just what i see as showing who has the power sorry for my rant but i love emergency 3, 4 and 2012 i just think sometimes this forum lets it down abit.

[Newfoundking]

WE try to keep constructive, but with people stealing models, breaking rules, and just annoying authors, sometimes we've got to be the bad guy. If people come on asking for help, then we offer it, if people come on demanding we do something for them, we let them know it doesn't work like that.

[keepachris]

ok i wasnt aware of model thiefs

[MAN007]

WE try to keep constructive, but with people stealing models, breaking rules, and just annoying authors, sometimes we've got to be the bad guy. If people come on asking for help, then we offer it, if people come on demanding we do something for them, we let them know it doesn't work like that.

So then when is the release date of this thread? LOL just kidding! Seriously though, that is a very good point. If I were in your shoes, I would say/do the exact same thing! Keep up the good work!